Ep.322 – In defense of Taylor Swift’s Blasphemous Poet’s Department?!?

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This is the Widower tale music speaks.

Podcast with Blake Mosley, James Todd, and Amanda Dolan.

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to w. That gum. It's. It's me. It's me. It's Jac, and I messed up the intro, but that's okay cause we are all peeved today, and. And, well, I'll introduce myself, and I'll let these guys introduce ourselves. Welcome back to the Win Words podcast. We're all over the place where we fight depression with the power music. I am neither Tony Romo or a scooter from the muffins, but I am James Romo. Right there.

James Romo, baby.

I do love that man. It is. It is perfection.

What a handsome devil.

There we go. It is. Yes. It is a handsome devil. Isn't he? All right. Yes. And so we are talking about kind of a sensitive subject, but I'm willing these guys do the intrusive and we don't.

Yeah.

Happen.

So you could say that I'm commonly referred to as the loudest guy. Today, I'm probably the maddest guy in the room, but only when I'm playing the drums. And actually, it's a great source of getting out some frustration. I'm your endless source of useless music knowledge. My name is Blake Moseley, aka Brosely, aka emo bmo, aka probably the second biggest swifty that you know.

And then there's me, mandy Dolan. I may not be. I may not know this, the name of the song, the artist, or the album like the others here, but chances are I will be singing along loudly, proudly, and poorly. Just ask my kids. They'll also tell you that I'm not a regular mom. I am a blasphemous mom.

Ooh. Got him. Got him.

Um, yeah, we're about to get into that.

We're gonna get into it 1st.

First of all, we gotta explain what we did over the weekend because I haven't seen you or talk to you with.

Yeah.

Good week. So before we get into the upsetting stuff, let's get into the positive stuff. Cuz I guess. I guess this could be the most pretty positive section of episode.

Yeah, probably you could say that. So, you know, I had, I had a great weekend. It was good. I. I did not do the entire five k but I participated in a five k for my niece.

Nice.

And so that was fun. And you needed some, some very light yard work. I'm trying to take it easy on my back because I have, I think I have like a pinched nerve in my back or something. It's been acting up for the past few weeks. So I took it easy and so, yeah, it was, it was good. It was good. How about you guys?

I. I do have a question blake, though.

Oh, sure.

Five k is 5 km, right?

Sure.

Yes, 3.1 mile.

Okay. So it's about 5000 miles. So.

No, it's 5.15 thousand. Like it's five. Like it's 5100 or 5000 meters, right?

Sure.

Yeah.

So that's. Yeah. So roughly 15,000ft.

I didn't do that.

You didn't do that?

I didn't do all that. You know, I did, I did two laps. It was supposed to be three would be the full amount and I did two.

Okay, well that's okay.

I did it with my brother in law Brian. And you know what? We had a great time. We had fun, we made memories, we talked. It was great.

So, you know, perfect.

Yeah.

Because that is what it should be about. Because I made a mistake almost ten years ago of deciding I was going to run a half marathon. It was like the best and worst decision of my life. Maybe not really my entire life, but it was a lot of training that went on to get there. And I'm glad I did it. I did it with my sister sort of. She was there. She went on her own pace. Cause she is a much speedier runner than I am.

Sure.

I think she's done something ridiculous like twelve marathons because she's.

Oh no, thanks God.

She's a little.

I don't think I can even do one, to be honest with y'all.

I'm good.

26.2 miles. Like she's done that multiple times and like paid to do it and like paid to fly somewhere and then paid for a hotel and then, you know, so, yeah, she's more power tea. Good for her. But, yeah, not my. Not my jam.

Yeah, I could probably.

But awesome that you got to hang out with your brother.

Yeah, that was good. It was good. It was a good time. Yeah.

I could probably walk, like, 600ft before I get tired, you know, and that's. That's my, like, that's my limit, you know. I mean, that's all right if I had to go, like, a 600 foot walk, I. Count me in, man. You know? You know, because, like, I walked you. I walked around the loo twice without getting tired, so that's definitely 600ft, you know? So.

Yeah. Which in a minute, y'all, I'm gonna have to make you all laugh at my cup, but I'm gonna wait until we get into this before perfect pointed out, but, yeah. So Blake ran and did some yard work.

I wanna. I wanna make it very clear there was no running on my part at all. Walk and paced myself.

So it's a walking marathon.

You're taking care of your back?

Yeah, I am. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

So, James, what about you? What did you do this weekend?

I did not have to work Friday, Saturday, Sunday or today. So it's a four day vacation, I guess you would call it.

Yeah.

But I'm nice. It is nice. But, I mean, I work at a restaurant, so you have to go. You go. It's not a vacation if you don't make money, you know? And with restaurants, it's always tension that.

You know, is Mother's Day, like, the biggest, like, the busiest restaurant day of the year.

Yeah.

I feel like I've heard that somewhere.

Mother's Day, Valentine's Day, and Christmas, maybe. No, we're close to Christmas. Yeah. So Valentine's Day and Mother's Day are the two most important days of the year, but, you know, which is why.

I don't go out to eat on those days.

There you go. There you go.

I don't. Yeah.

But. But I just been relaxing around the house and. Yeah. So. Yeah.

Awesome.

There you go.

That's all I've been doing, really, you know. Oh, I ordered my favorite goar CD.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah. So that's coming in Thursday. It's beyond hell for anybody who cares because I saw them during the. During the beyond hell tour, and that's. That. That's the best show that I've ever experienced in my life, so.

Right.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Cool, cool, cool.

How about you, Miss Amanda? What did you do?

Let's see. Friday, I drove down to the lake on Friday and. Yeah, hung out at the lake with the dogs and Michael kids were with their dad. Then on Saturday, I had some of Michael's family over, his mom and his grandma and his stepdad and his aunt. We had them over for a late lunch, early dinner, I don't know, whatever time the meal that meal counts as. It's at 330 in the afternoon. And then. Yeah, like, we just hung out and watched the thunderstorms at the lake and I came home and hung out some in the evening with my kids for Mother's Day. Nothing very exciting.

Yeah.

Did you happen to see the northern lights? Because I heard they were here in America, but I never got the chance to.

There were. So if we had had clear skies, I think we might have been able to see them. But it was so cloudy down here, and then on Sunday or Saturday night, it just rained.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I didn't really have time. Well, by the time I found out the northern lights were here, they were over, so. But. But I want to go to the actual, actual northern lights, you know, I think. Yeah, I think it's like Maine or something. You can see them at Maine and like off of the north. Canada or something. I'm not sure where they are.

Alaska, maybe. You're really good in Alaska.

Yeah. Because I heard you get seen really well in like, the upper main area, you know, state.

That makes sense. A friend of mine moved to northern Sweden, like way north in Sweden for her doctoral program studying North Atlantic code. Cause, you know. But yeah, like, they had essentially like a month worth of getting to see the northern lights just about every night. Now. They also had like 4 hours of daylight during that month, so.

Sure.

Yeah.

Balance or something.

There you go.

I don't know. Yeah, it's something I would love to go see. I'd love to go. Yeah, I need to travel more. I haven't been traveling as much as I used to, although I need a hurry. Boise.

I need to hurry up and get my butt to Nashville because I've been wanting to go. So. Yeah, my mom really, really wants me to go. She's like, you gotta go see the old grand ole opry and a new one, you know, because an old opry, they will take you like backstage and tours and everything and then. And then new one, you can just, you know, obviously watch, you know, robbery and everything. But. Yeah, she like, said, I must go there. So do it. Yeah, I am. You go one day. One day very, very soon. Yeah. Just, you know.

Heck yeah.

Cuz I'm. I'm here all the time, and I, you know, working all the time, coming home, watch tv, podcast, you know, I just want to get out of the house and live life, you know?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you should. You should do that.

I think we get stuck in ruts.

We do.

Sure.

We do. Yeah.

Yeah. It's good to break routine every now and then. I like. And I like routines. I like being in my routine. But every now and then, I'm like, I could. I could go. I need something different, a little bit of a break. Go on vacation. Something different. Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, like, dreading.

Dread. Dreading what? What are you dreading? Are you dreading this conversation?

Are you draining this okay.

Conversation? Because the pleasantries are over. And now we're gonna.

It's coming, and I'm gonna be a little grumpy, so I'm grumpy for.

Before we start anything, Amanda, I just want to preference this for you. Okay. I listened to three or four songs on the new album, and I told break this earlier.

And.

And I love the song fortnight with. With post and low. I love that. But slog that I love the least on it for was my boy only breaks his fear of toys. I didn't really dig it, you know, but. But, but the tortured poets department and down bad were awesome.

You know, down bad is my favorite one. Down bad is so good.

Well, for me, I don't think anything would taught this long style, you know? Cause I give. That's my song, you know?

Yeah.

A good, clean eighties song. You know, I've got a clean eighties vibe. And you all know me. I love ladies. Oh, yeah. But Blake said this was. This was not a bad album, but this wasn't her best album either.

That was my opinion on the matter. It was. Yeah. And I'm curious, Amanda, what your thoughts now that it's been out for a few weeks and, like, we've had a chance to, like, listen to it a few times, what are your thoughts?

So I listened to it the first time, and I thought, I'm not really crazy about this. Every song sounds the same.

Sure.

Like, I'm not. I'm not getting it. I'm not loving it. It's not for me. And then the more I listen to it.

Yeah.

The more I start to dig it.

Yes.

Now, it's not my favorite. Is it, like, it's not full of, like, bops that, like, I'm gonna, like, be, you know, like, dancing in my living room to, like. There's no, like, shake it offs to, like.

No. Yeah.

That I. You know, but is it one that, like, I will drive around in my car and cry with some of the songs? Absolutely.

Right. Yeah.

And the. You know, and it is like the tortured poets. Like, it is a poetic.

Yes.

Like, it's poetry. It's not. And I think that that's, like, for me, I mean, it is about the lyrics more than the music.

Right. My opinion, 100% agree. That was my thoughts first time listening to it because, like, leading up to this album, a lot of times what. What a lot of artists and different bands will do is they release, like, a couple of songs leading up to the release of the full out. Yeah, we didn't get that. It was just, like, was secret until. Boom, here's the album.

It's kind of like a lind biscuits. Um, Limbus. He still sucks. They like, yeah, yo, boom. You know, and I love that.

Like, by the way, that. And I was telling James, the new knocked loose album is so good. Oh, my God. I mean, like, james, I know you are familiar with. With Poppy. We discussed Poppy before. Yep. On a previous episode, but she is featured on one of the knock loose songs that's out. And it's so good. But, like, they did the whole thing where they released, like, two or three songs before the album dropped, which then is also a great idea because, like, you're already familiar with those songs by the time the album comes out. So, like, I always love when the album has, like, the, like, the ending of the song trails into the intro of the next song. Like, they kind of bleed together and, like, almost form one song. I love that. I love albums that do that.

Yeah.

So, like, you hear the. The ending of a new song that you haven't heard yet because album just dropped, and it kind of bleeds into the next song, and then when that one kicks in, you're like, oh, I already know this song. And that is exactly what happened with a lot of the songs on that new not loose album. And I was working as I was listening to it, and it was very hard for me not to stand up and just start, like, throwing some elbows. Right. Start moshing in my office, because it's so dang good. And I don't like a lot of new heavy music. Right. I have not been into a lot of new heavy bands, but not loose, for whatever reason. Just. They just do it right for me. So, so good. Love that. But, yeah. All that to say that the Taylor Swift album that just dropped had no songs that were pre released. It was all just at one time, and I think that probably caught a lot of people off guard and that it was sumit at all at one.

Time, and it was a bit. It's. I mean, it's two albums, really.

Right, exactly. Exactly.

3 hours plus of music. Right.

You listen.

Yeah. If you listen to the anthology, it is a whole nother album is a whole nother.

It's 2 hours and three minutes.

Right.

31 songs.

Yeah.

Like, that is a. Like 31 songs. That is two, maybe even three, depending on the artists.

Yes. Yeah.

Songs like that. Or, you know, albums.

So, for context, the new not loose album I was just talking about, not even 30 minutes long, really.

It's a plain ride.

30 minutes. Yeah. Not even 30 minutes long. So, yeah, it's. So. It's. It's. It's a massive album that everybody had to consume at one time, but upon relistening to it, and, I mean, it's. Every time me and Al got in the car, we'd put it on, we'd listen to it again, and there were just so many good songs. Like. Like, we started, like, I guess, understanding and, like, getting them. Um, and now I'm like, oh, dude, fortnite is so good. Down bad is so good. Smallest man that ever lived was so good. Like, there's. There's so many good ones on there. There's still a few that I'm like, I'm not sold on it. And maybe eventually they. They'll. They'll be some of my favorite songs. I don't know. I wasn't crazy about folklore and evermore, and that was kind of the general consensus when those two dropped. People are like, I don't really know. And then now they love it.

Didn't when y'all tell me that she recorded it in her bus or something, like, I don't know about.

No, it wouldn't surprise me.

Okay. Yeah, no, because I thought. I thought one of y'all told me that she recorded the whole thing while she was on tour.

I mean, she had to have recorded it during that period of time.

Sure. Well, and that was during COVID So, like, there was a lot of. You know, and there's a really cool, like. And it. I can't remember if it was which album it is, but on Disney, there's, like, a documentary of sorts talking about the. The recording process and, like, the inspiration behind the songs and all that, but, like, yeah, she put out two albums during COVID you know, and it wasn't everybody's, you know, thing. And then now it's revered as one or, you know, her her best albums or best double album or whatever you want to call it. And I think that'll happen with. With torture post. It's only been. It's only been out a few weeks and it's. It's already breaking records. Right. So, um. But what we're going to talk about today, folks, prepare yourselves, because especially if you. If you are religious in any capacity, if you are a Christian, if you are a post Christian, if you are a whatever, if you have experienced church hurt, I guess, trigger warning, maybe, because, like, we're going to get into some topics about that because the christian community has totally crapped all over Taylor Swift yet again. And I don't think it's justified. And I would love to discuss that with you guys. So me and Amanda are gearing up because we're ready to just fight somebody.

And just for winning and just forewarning. I know nothing about this, so I'm eager to.

And, James, I'm in the dark, you.

Know, I think, like, I would like to kind of. Before we even, like, get into this, I believe that all three of us identify as Christian.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Correct.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I know that, Blake, you play drums in your church praise band. I had for almost ten years, led the Bible study of our youth group. So, like. And my dad is a minister, or was a minister before he died. Like, I'm not like, you know, I think none of us are unfamiliar with Christianity and church, so I want to, like, put that out there that, like, we are, like, this is part of our belief system and this is part of our identity as well.

Right.

Which may be why I'm so hot about this.

Yeah, yeah, same. Same here. But it's. It's an interesting topic. I felt like it needed to be talked about because there's a lot of opinions going around and just, like, everything else, you know, opinions are like buttholes, right? Everybody's got one. But we're gonna. We're gonna talk about it in just a second here. But I understand there's also a lot of people who just, like, automatically hear the name Taylor Swift and they just shut it off. Right? Like, not interested. No, thanks. And that's okay. But I encourage you, if you're listening to this episode today and you are not a Taylor Swift fan, just try to, like, take in as much as you can. Um, so that we maybe. Maybe your opinion of her. And that's not what we're trying to do. We're not trying to change your opinion on Taylor Swift. What I would aim to do with this episode is maybe take all of the christians that are taking their stance against Taylor Swift. And I don't really think that it's justified. So, like, you know, we'll, we'll, we'll get into all that, sir.

Like, is that a Kansas city. Oh, I see what you're doing. I see what you're doing, my dog. There you go.

Just like Taylor Swift and Paramore doing in Paris right now, right? They're wearing the colors, right? It's cool.

I mean, you got to support the team, right?

Got a support. That's right. All right, so little, we're going to give a little back, a little bit of history about the newest album that Taylor Swift has released. Because when we did our two parter on Taylor Swift, this album had not dropped yet. So this is new information, so real quick. Tortured Poets department. See 11th studio album by the american singer songwriter Taylor Swift. Released on April 19, 2024 through Republic Records. It was expanded into a double album upon release, subtitled the Anthology, containing a second volume of songs and Boy, is it good. Swift began writing the Tortured poets department shortly after finishing her 10th studio album, Midnight's, released in 2022, and continued developing it until the, excuse me, developing it behind the Arrows tour in 2023. As some of you may know, the Arrows tour was like a record breaking tour for this, this chick, and it is on Disney plus. And I would highly encourage all of you to go watch it, even if you don't like Taylor Swift songs that much. The musicianship, the dancers, the stage presence that she has, the stage itself, everything about is just really cool. So it's awesome. So she described the tortured poets departments as a cathartic album and conceived it as an imperative songwriting project amidst her heightened fame and social, excuse me, and media scrutiny. The songs introspect on her public and private lives, detailing tumult and sorrow via motifs of self awareness, delusion, anger, mourning and humor. Produced with Jack Antonov, who is a genius, and Aaron Dessner, the album is a minimalist, minimalist synth pop, folk pop, and chamber chamber pop effort. Never heard of that. That's cool. With rock and country stylings, the composition is largely mid tempo, driven by a mix of synthesizers and drum machines. With piano and guitar, the album broke various sales and streaming records. It has achieved the highest single day in single week global streams for an album on Spotify and topped the charts and territories across Europe, Asia Pacific and the Americas, breaking chart records in Australia, Canada, Germany and the United Kingdom. The United States torture post department debuted atop the Billboard 200 with 1st, 1st week 2.6 million album equivalent units, including 1.9 million pure sales marketing, Swift's biggest sales week and record extending 7th release to open with over a million units. Its songs made Swift the first artist to monopolize the first 14 positions of the Billboard hot 100 with the lead single Fortnite at the top. So, whoa, like, she immediately, like, took over the charts with, like, the entire album. This is pretty, pretty incredible.

Yeah.

So the album polarized critics upon release. Most reviews were positive and praised Swift's cathartic songwriting for its emotional resonance and wit. But some found it overlong and lacking profundity. Profundity. Profundity.

Sure.

Yeah, yeah.

So journalists attributed the mixed receptions to Swift's celebrity, which was used by some reviews to prioritize, prioritize gossip and sensationalism over artistic evaluation. Some subsequent assessments appreciated the musical and lyrical nuances that emerged upon further listens. But Swift included songs from the album in the 24 20, excuse me, 2024 phase of the arrows to revamping the original set list. And we've been watching those, me and Ally. I've been watching those on tick tock. Like, oh. Like, oh, she played down bad and it was so cool they did this and, you know, whatever. Um. So, yeah. And then let's see here. So various peer journalists and columnists cross examine the album's critical reception. Publications considered the tortured poets department a polarizing album. The Ringers. Nathan. Nathan Hubbard, excuse me, deemed it Swift's most controversial release since reputation in 2017. Journalists from the New York Times and Vox attributed this phenomenon to Swift's heightened fame and associated media overexposure in between 2020 and 2024, including eight album releases. The influential era story. Right. And the relationship with Travis Kelsey. I'm a pause there. So when they say eight album releases.

We'Re talking about some of those are Taylor's versions, right?

Exactly. We do have folklore. We do have evermore. We have midnight. But we have a lot of the Taylor Swift re releases. Taylor's version.

So that she could gain control in some ways of her.

Exactly.

Back of her music.

Think about that, too. Like, no, she didn't record. Right. The songs, you still have to record them. And not only that, you have to record them and make them sound almost exactly like the original release, which is.

With your voice and with a more mature voice.

She's not 16 years old anymore.

Right. Your voice changes, your voice gets deeper. Your voice, you know, it's an amazing accomplishment, you know, because we know how much I talk about, like, vocal health this is probably where her caring for her vocal health.

Yeah.

Has come in handy.

Yeah.

Because, like, right when she cares for it.

Yeah.

She's going to be able to hit those different registers and all of that.

So I'm just wondering how Bob was down now.

They did it. You know, they didn't they record it? Didn't they do like, they did, but.

They did it the way that they wanted to because. Yeah, we slower.

Right.

Man, if you actually pay attention to the lyrics of that song.

God, yeah.

Oh, they, like, they hit.

They hit hard. Yep.

Especially, like, as an adult, I think even more.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. So Taylor Swift. Yes. She's coming out with albums and. And there has been a lot of exposure, especially, I mean, people just said really mean, ugly things during, you know, the Super bowl and during, like, chiefs games and everything because, like, they were mad about Taylor Swift being on screen for like, not even 10 seconds. Like, it was a lot to get upset about. And I think people just need to calm down. You need to calm down.

Well, one thing that I remember about the Super bowl was the image of her shaking her head when they said something about Jesus. And I think that erupted.

Yeah, no, I thought that was it. Something. Ice Spice won an award and she thanked God. Right?

Yeah.

Like, Taylor, you know, did that like a head shake, which most people would be like. That was like. Like, yeah, God's there.

Yeah.

But because they were looking for like, that's. That's how it was.

She's a sadist. I don't like her no more. Oh, my God.

This is like all. Ah, there's a whole thing happening here. Like, lost his mind.

And that was so funny that my headphones.

Yes. Everybody call her and they're saying, yes. And she sold her soul. I'm like, wow. Well.

And I didn't even know about that. I wasn't even date on, on that whole thing. Now I know her and I, Spice, are friends. Right, right. I, Spice was at.

Yeah.

The football games with her. So.

Yeah.

And. Yeah, again, like, so many.

So many emotions. Right, right.

So much. So many thoughts and feelings.

So many thoughts. Well, let's see. Paste anonymous review was singled out by another, by other publications as scathing. Sumana Condon can. Mmm. Condoc.

Yep.

Sum sun. Yep. Of the South China morning. Yep. There you go. The South China Morning Post opined that they hid their reviewers identity because swifties, quote, can become quite spirited when it comes to protecting their favorite singer. And here we are. So Swift shared the album's positive reviews on her social media tagging the respective authors. Some considered it a response to paste and other unfavorable reviews. Yeah. I mean, yes, swifties can be very aggressive and defensive.

Well, they're, you know, I think any group that is a really big fan of something, which we could argue that, like, the other side, like. Like, the christian side, like, they are also very. Yeah, they're, you know, they feel like they're really standing up for what they believe in, which is.

Which is fair.

I don't have a problem with that. But I think, though, that when you try to create a problem when there is not one.

Yeah, yeah, that's.

That's.

That's the problem.

That's. That is the problem. And. And so. Yeah, but, you know, and I do think that, like, because of who she is and by who she is, I just simply mean, like, famous and in your face right now and not in a bad way. Just. Right. Like, we see her everywhere. Like, it got so much more attention, and I wonder if it would have without, like, if it would have gotten as much attention had she not just had this tour and she not recently been dating Jason Kelsey.

Yeah.

Travis Kelty. No, not Jason. Please.

You heard it here.

Let's go back.

No, no, no.

Do you love Jason Kelsey? Jason Kelsey is, like, one of my favorite human beings.

One of them retired, right?

Yeah, he did.

Yeah. Jason Kelsey just retired.

Yeah.

And Jason Kelsey is, like, the one that's in our house, because my son is a center football player, and so, like, that's his position. And he looks up to him as a human being. As a player. He. You know, he's. Because he's a good person.

Right.

I think. I think that Mama Kelsey did a good job, really, truly raising her boys.

God bless Mama Kelsey.

She's on. She was on a talk show in the morning because my mom and I, when I was over at sumpter, we watched her, my mom was like, hey, isn't that Kelsey's mom? I'm like, I don't know. And sure enough, it was talking about food and, you know, decor and everything.

She's sweet.

Yeah.

Yeah. Like, one of my favorite things, I think, was when, like, her sons were playing against each other. Right. She's got. She had, like, a jersey that was split down the middle, so she was like, she's like, I go picking sides. Yeah.

For real.

That's good. You know?

Which is, like, part of what makes her amazing, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

So. Yeah. All right, so are we gonna, like, get into the.

Let's get into it. So I. So as soon as the album dropped, and I'm not kidding you, as soon as it dropped, there were people already on Facebook, Instagram, tick tock, you name it, blasting Taylor Swift, calling her a satanist. I told you, you know, picture of the, you know, the songs on Spotify with all the explicit markers beside them, talking about how, like, how far she has fallen off, how far away from the lord she has gotten, and analyzing her lyrics, picking them apart, talking about how she's mocking God, how she's blasphemous, how she's this, that and other.

Let me. Let me ask you something, though, okay? Because.

Yeah, because.

Okay, so I read. I'm not sure this is true. So that's why I'm asking you, because you know more than I do about Taylor. In your aristor, wasn't there a song or some kind of stage thing where she came out and, like. Like a demonic thing? Like. Oh, like. Like a fiance or something? Like.

Am I reading in the. Not in the eras tour? Okay, that was not. That was not in the eras tour. Okay, that was real. That happened. That actually did happen, but I think it was like.

Well, yeah, but it was. Okay.

Okay. And then I think in the heiress tour, though, that she was, like, they were dancing with some sort of, like, orbs and she had on a camera.

That looked very witchy.

Witchy. Which, by the way, now is a good time to show you all that I have my I'll put a spell on you cup from hocus pocus.

Okay. I love that movie.

It's totally unintentional. It just happened to be that, like, this was the cup I grabbed.

I love that.

Right.

But, you know, clearly.

Um.

Well, listen, hey, let's. Let's pause there. Let's. So let's. Let's even. Let's just analyze what we just taught, what we literally just talked about. Okay, so this. So during the arrows tour, during the song willow, there is a part where they're like. It's the. You know, the set in the woods, right? The trees are all on stage, whatever. They've got these glowing orbs that they're dancing around with. Right. And sure, it may look like witches in a coven in the woods that are, like, casting spells or whatever. If that's how you. If that's what you're looking for, you found it.

Right?

Good job.

Right?

I didn't see it that way when I watched it. That was not. My first reaction was like, oh, this is witchcraft. But let's think about the. Which media that we consume and we're totally okay with it. All right. Number one, Harry Potter. Absolutely love Harry Potter. They go to the school of Witcraft and wizardry right there in the title. Okay. And Amanda, you just pulled out a cup. Hocus pocus. One of the most beloved Chris. Or not. Christmas movies.

Halloween.

Yeah, Halloween movies.

That's. Yeah, right.

We're okay. We love. Oh, we love hocus pocus. Oh, it's okay. It's just a movie. Okay, well, it's just a dance during one of her songs. Like, you, me, all media, no matter what form it is, if you are going to have a problem with one, then you need to have problem with all of it. As my. Is my thoughts.

Well, and I guess, like, I still struggle and I keep, like, trying to find it. I spent a lot of. Maybe not a lot, but I spent a fair amount of time today, like, looking into, like, what age, what is witchcraft and, like, why is it, you know, so horrible? And I remember two summers ago, Emily and I, my daughter and I went to Salem to celebrate her 8th grade graduation.

Yeah.

And so we learned about the Salem witch trials and all of that stuff, which one not really as big of a thing as, like, we were all, like, made to think that they were. There wasn't like that many.

And, oh, they just murdered a bunch of people just because.

But so here's the thing is, like, with, like, the witch trials, it was like, if they sink and die, they weren't a witch. If they float, they were and they live. So it's like, either way, you're dead.

Right?

Like, there was no winning. I mean, truly, like, that was how it was with, with witch trials in England and in the, you know, well, not the United States, the colonies. Like, it truly was a. If you live, then you're a witch. And if you died, then you weren't a witch. And, like, you. Exactly, you know, like, but then you're dead. So I guess it's. It's like this no win. And I feel like that's kind of where we're at again with Taylor. Is it like, she cannot win.

Exactly. Centuries later, we're still doing the same thing. It just looks different. That's all it is.

And, you know, as a. And I think that I'm gonna just be this person for a second. Like, yo, where do you think we got Christmas trees from? Why do you think Christmas is in December when it is?

Right?

Like, I'm just saying that there is a lot of pagan, you know, pieces to Christianity, right. And there is nothing wrong with that. Like, we. So many religions have gotten pieces from so many other places because hot take, in my opinion, there's one God, and that God shows up as different in different ways for different people. That is my personal opinion. That is not this podcast opinion. That is not anyone else's. That is mine. I am of the opinion that God shows up in the way that we need God to show up for us.

Okay?

Now, for me, that is through Christianity. And if you look at, you know, most of the religions out there, they are very aligned with each other and core beliefs. And so, you know, but, you know, since she is a, like, satanist. Right. Yeah. So, I mean, it's just. But, like, what Satan. Like, I don't know what. Like, the Church of Satan isn't what people think it is.

It is so not. I know, and I'm so glad you brought that up.

So, so for people who don't know or have truth or Satan, how. What's. What's the true source of that?

Well, all right, so I'll put it to you like this. There is. There is a podcast that I listen to where one of the coat, one of the hosts of the podcast identifies as a satanist. And one thing that I have learned in listening to that podcast is, like, satanism, as what the church has professed and tried to paint the picture of what Satanism is, is not that. In fact, people who are Satanists don't believe that Satan even exists. They don't believe that God exists. They don't believe that any of it is real. It's just the idealism that is what they follow behind. So, satanism.

Yeah, like the, like, the church of Satan, they have the nine satanic sins, and the first one, which I kind of love, is stupidity. And, like. And I don't know that it's stupidity as much as, like, ignorance. Like it says on their website, it says the top of the list for satanic sins, the cardinal sin of satanism. It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable, but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid.

Mm hmm.

Which, yeah. I mean, I don't disagree with in a lot of ways.

Yeah. Yeah. Because think about it. Like, so what they're, what they're saying there is, you know, especially the points about, like, not just believing something because you've been told, believe it. That's a lot of Christianity. That's a lot of it. That's probably 90% of it is. Like, I grew up in church, and I don't really know why I believe this, but my grandma took me to church, or my parents took me to church, and that is just my belief system. So instead of taking this is. All right, so a little bit of backstory before this podcast. A lot of people know I used to have a podcast when my brother in law called not religious. And we discuss things like this all the time, um, because we were, um, you know, coming out of some church hurt and needed a way to, like, process what we were going through because we were, like, excommunicated from our. Our prior church, because we left treated differently. It was very, you know, very, uh, hard. It was hard to get through. Like, people you thought were family, um, to you, like, were suddenly, like, you don't go to church here. Well, then I want nothing to do with you. And so that was tough, and we needed a way to get through it and talk about it. So we started a podcast, and then turns out there were a lot of people who felt the same way that we did. So it was. It was therapeutic for us, it was therapeutic for other people, and it was a great thing, had its time. We don't do it anymore because we don't need it now. Right. We go to a great church now. I love my church. I love the people I go to church with. Everything about it is just so much better. Right? But one of the problems that we had, and we talked about it so frequently on not religious, was people just believing in Jesus and. And following Jesus because they were told to, like, take the time to do your research, find it in your heart that you believe that Jesus even exists, let alone you want to commit your life to, like, studying his teachings, to serving him, all these things like that is. That is why we named the podcast not religious, is because the religion side of it is so messed up and there's no relationship, and we were more about the relationship rather than the religious part of it. And following a set of rules that, like, you only adhered to because someone told you to instead of, like, analyzing it and being like, I don't really believe that. You know, like, whatever. Like. And it could be for a number of things. And I'm not telling. Trying to tell people how to live their life, but if you just did it because someone told you to, that's. You need to stop for a second and back up and really think about that. So I went through a deconstruction. We talked about deconstruction earlier when I left the church, and when I got chastised because I didn't agree with some of the things that they taught, and I didn't feel like it was my place to be there anymore, I went through a deconstruction phase, and I never once stopped believing in God. I never stopped putting my trust in faith. Faith in God. But I had a huge problem with church.

Yep.

Well.

And I agree.

So if I can, like, two pieces. One is like, if you were a Christian, I think by definition that means you follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. Like, we agree that that is, like, the core.

Right?

That's it.

So when, like, you look at, like, what Jesus taught, I always go to. And forever, we'll go to Matthew 2022, where the Sadducees and the Pharisees are trying to trick Jesus and say, like, what is the greatest commandment? And Jesus replied, you know, the most important commandment is to love God. What, with all your heart, soul, mind and body, or just heart, soul. I don't know all the words. I can't quote it. Exactly. That is the first.

What do you mean?

And greatest commandment. I know, I'm sorry. And then the second, is it to love your neighbor as yourself?

Yeah.

And so, to me, at the core of being a Christian is to love God and love others.

Yeah.

Period. End of story. Like, that is your job.

Right?

And so when you are out here and the number of people that were like, okay, so here is my take on Taylor Swift. But I'm not judging because I don't have any place to judge. I'm like, yes, you are. But you are. But you are.

A lot of. I think that people do do that, but they don't know, you know, because it's like, with all due respect, and then totally disrespect you, you know, they don't know they're doing it, but, oh, it's, you know.

Yes. And then. And so, like, I don't know if I've shared this with y'all, like, not on the air, but. Or, you know, when recording, but when I. Chad, who was the youth director at our church. And it's funny, as he does not remember teaching this, but it will stick with me forever. He talked about, when you read the Bible, cua c u a. So context, which means you read before and after the verse, so you get the context right, and then you understand what's happening, not just in that part of the Bible. But what was happening in the world at that time and then apply. How does that apply to our world today? And I think that a lot of us could learn a lot more about the Bible and what, like, how to live it if we spent a little more time in that sort of contemplative process. And, you know, I. I have something that I send to people that I love, and it's a lovely, you know, meme. And it says, I can do all things through a Bible verse taken out of context.

I love that because it's true. It is absolutely true. We will take. We will take a Bible verse and God, I know a lot of people that do it. They take a Bible verse and they. They only exactly what you said. There's no before and after the verse. They just take the one portion of it because it fits their narrative and it's like, boom. But the Bible says this, like, right. Well, if you would read the Bible, then you would know before this, here's what was happening. After this, here's what was happening. But you took the one little snippet, Rand, and you ran with it. And I don't think that that is right.

So have you all seen the. It's a. It's a Taylor Swift meme. And on the top of it, it has Taylor Swift in their sundress and with the guitar and. Yeah, like, like country Taylor Swift. It's like. Like how it began, you know, Taylor Swift is a guitar sundress. Mine and everything on the bottom of the picture, it's how it's going. And you can see she's dressing up in, like, witch outfit and I'm like, come on, bro. You gotta be. You gotta be kidding me.

Yeah. You know, have you. Have we done something on the satanic panic? We just did something right on, like.

So we touched on it. Now on not religious. We did do a satanic panic, like, episode years ago that I would love to actually go back and do one. Just about the music portion, right, of the satanic panic back in the eighties.

And nineties playing music backwards and.

Right, right.

And I think, like, we. I'm just like. I just had, like, a can't we all just get along? Moment of just. And I was texting with a friend of mine today, and I was like, I think that we are so good at finding how we are different and focusing on that, that it keeps us so divided.

Yeah.

And, you know, when you are looking for something to divide you and to separate you from something or someone, you're going to find it.

Right, exactly.

And so it's, you know, when you're looking for, you know. Okay, here, can we talk a little bit about, like, blasphemous lyrics for a second while we're in here?

Sure.

So, you know, I'm sure that, like, if you all have looked like there's plenty of, like, people out there that talked about, you know, she's making a mockery or she's being blasphemous. And there were, like, two big places that I saw that, which was in daddy, I love him. Right. I just learned that these people only raise you to cage you. Sarah's and Hannah's in their Sunday best, clenching their pearls, sighing. What a mess. I just learned these people try to save you because they hate you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, you know what? Like, there's a lot of truth in that.

Oh, yeah.

Just 100%, period.

Yeah.

And I don't see how that is blasphemous or even making a mockery of it. Like, it is. It is speaking her truth.

Yeah.

And then, you know, in the smallest man in the world, right. Where she says, I would have died for your sins.

Yes.

Instead, I just died inside. And you deserve prison, but you won't get time.

Mm hmm.

She's not saying she is like, jesus and she was gonna die for your sins. She is saying, I loved you so much, I was willing to sacrifice everything for you.

Yes.

But you hurt me so much that, like, all it did was, like, just killed myself with no purpose.

Right.

So I. Those are the first lyrics. The first time I heard those lyrics, and I never thought about, she's trying to make it Jesus or God at.

All, because you're not coming at it from like that. No.

Yeah, yeah. I am open minded.

There. There you go. That's the step. Number one. Have an open mind.

Falls playing on in the background.

Oh, I think it's a Taylor Swift thing. Right?

It was Taylor Swift. It has now changed to Eminem. Eminem and Rihanna.

Okay. Sorry. I couldn't tell what it did, and.

I just realized I love that song.

Well, I just. I've never watched a music video before. I just realized that it's Megan Fox.

Yeah.

And, um, what's his name? From Lost and Lord of the Rings.

Oh, yeah. With. Yeah, yeah, I know. Blonde guy with the Charlie in law.

Is that what his name was? He had the band. He was that. He was in the band. And then he was one of the hobbits. I can't remember. His name was Mary.

Mary.

No, Pippen.

I think it was Pippin.

Maybe he was Pippin.

I can't remember.

So, yeah, I just realized he's in there in the music video, so. Yeah, it was Taylor Swift. Now it's Eminem. So I'm curious to see what comes up after.

Okay. Dominic. Is it Dominic Monaghan?

Yes, that's him. Yep. Yep, that's him.

Okay. That's him. Yeah.

He's played. Yeah. So ink. Brandy Buck.

He was married. Okay.

He was married.

And then in lost, he was Charlie Page.

Charlie. Yes, Charlie. Yeah. But I'm glad you. You went to the lyrics because I have some screenshots here. I went to a tick tock, and it was your typical, like, southern, you know, like, christian mom who is, like, blasting Taylor Swift, even though she. She swears up and down. I didn't. I'm not blasting Taylor Swift. You know, I was a big swifty in high school, like, back to December. Got me through so many breakups and all this stuff. But she's analyzing lyrics, right? And she's like, this is a problem, y'all. We got to do something about it, y'all. So you brought up some lyrics that I was going to share. Here's another one. What if I roll the stone away? They're going to crucify me anyway. What if the way you hold me is actually what's holy? If long suffering propriety is what they want from me they don't know how you've haunted me so stunningly. I choose you and me religiously, and a lot of people are like, crucify me. You're saying. You're like Jesus? That's blasphemous. No, you mind you, there were more than just.

There were more people being crucified at.

The same time to Jesus.

Like in that. In the Bible.

Yeah.

Crucifixion is. It was.

It was a punishment.

Punishment?

Yes, that was a punishment. That is how they punished people who were thieves, who were. Whatever. Murderers, whatever. In this. In. In Jesus's case, they. They punished him. They crucified him because he said he was the son of God and they didn't believe him. So.

And so here she's saying, they are going to punish me no matter what.

I do, no matter what I do, I am going to be crapped all over. I'm damned if I do and I'm damned if I don't. That is what she is saying. They're going to crucify me anyway. So it is not. I did not take it as a blasphemous type of lyric. It is just. It's 100% true, because, look, that's what. Exactly what is happening in the screenshot. There is a tick tocker who is crucifying her. But yes, I would have died through sins instead of just died inside. I thought it was a great lyric, like, yes, I love you so much. Just like, jesus loved us so much that he died for us. I would have died for you. And another point I'm going to make, um, I've kind of got, like, some bullet points about my thoughts that I. I can spread out kind of throughout this discussion. But, like, for some people, a relationship is a religious experience for them. You can be so in love with someone that the closest thing that you can describe it to is, like, having a religious experience. And there's a lot of religious imagery that is used that is written the way that it's described in the Bible to, like, give us an idea, just because our puny human brains cannot fully grasp and understand the concept of God's love, so it has to be put into certain text for us to even begin to somewhat understand what it means. So when you talk about the church and when you talk about Jesus, a lot of times, how do they describe it? The bride. Right. Oh, right. But it's okay. That's okay. But when we. When we describe a relationship where someone is saying, I loved you so much, I would have died for you, the easiest way for you to put that is, like, in a religious concept, because people. People will understand that until they don't and until they hear and they're like, well, she's calling herself Jesus. No, she's not. She never did that. So. But yes, I love the lyric about the Sarah's and Hannah's and their Sunday best. That is definitely a dig at, like, southern, like, the Bible bell churches.

Anyway. And she has said, I am a Christian. Like, she is flat out, like, said that. And I think that when she went against some people, that might vote more to the right.

Yeah.

Particularly.

She was a country singer.

Yep.

Like, let's look at the majority of the country singers. Population of fan. Like, their fan base. Right. They're. They're in the south. They all go to church. They all are, you know, whatever. And for her, when she broke off and started doing pop music, a lot of people were like, who are you now? Who are you? I don't want anything to do with you. Right.

Well, and then, you know, she came out against something that, like.

But see, that's odd.

Marjorie Taylor Greene said and was like, yeah, that doesn't belong that kind of hate doesn't belong here. And it wasn't even as, like, it wasn't a political thing as much as it was like, that is not an okay way to treat people right.

Yeah, it could be double standard, too, cuz. Cuz the same thing happened with Darius Rucker, but his was in reverse. He started out in pop and. And then became country and went country, and now he's back to pop again and nothing. Crickets, you know?

Yeah.

Oh, yeah. I'm okay. Oh, yeah. I mean.

Right.

I love who did bluff because I love his. Love his country stuff, you know? I mean, I love Taylor Swift country. I love her pop, you know, one song of the pop music, but it's. It's all. Yeah. It's all weird and stupid at the same time, I think.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, and to be blasphemous is, like, the definition is the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God.

Mm hmm.

I don't understand how any of what, like, that's not showing a lack of reverence.

I never saw it that way. Now, there's plenty of artists out there who are blasphemous, and they've got no problem with it. Kanye west. Right. Exactly like it is. But. But it's okay. I think a lot of it is. Well, okay, I'm gonna give some of my opinions on here.

Yeah.

Because.

Go for it.

Yeah, let's. I'm gonna hit my bullet point. I'm gonna hit my bullet point.

Okay.

So, like, these are discussions that me and Allie have almost daily whenever we see something about Taylor Swift, because, like, it's just. That's. That is something we care about. We care about her. We care about her music. We're big fans, so naturally, we want to. We. We come. We come at it from a different perspective. Like, in defense, absolutely. But, like, not, like, defending her just because she's Taylor Swift. That's not the reason. We just don't think any of its justified. So, number one, you cannot hold a non christian artist company, organization, whatever, a non christian organization to your christian standards. Right. You cannot be upset with Disney because they. Because they do something, you don't like it because it doesn't line up with your christian standards. Disney is not a christian based company. Taylor Swift is not a christian artist. She is an artist. She is a christian. But she does not make christian music. She never has never, ever had christian music on her. On her repertoire. Not. Not a bit of it. Right. You cannot hold your christian standards to non christian artists or organizations. It's not fair. So it's point blank, period. It's just not fair. Okay, here's another thing. People are mad at Taylor Swift because she made a change in her style, because she started making grown up music, because, wow, shocker, she grew up. Okay? So if you don't want your little girl to listen to Taylor Swift anymore, then don't let her listen to Taylor Swift. It is just that simple. You are the parent. Be the parent. Don't rely on Taylor Swift to parent your child. You parent your child. If you do not want your eight year old listening to Taylor Swift's new album, by God, don't let her. Right. My. My goddaughter loves Taylor Swift, but she is not allowed to listen to the tortured poets department. And I completely agree with that. And I am a. I am a big Taylor Swift fan, but I. That is not an album for an eight year old. No, absolutely not. You. You guys are right in that sense. There are explicit lyrics. She is cussing. Not something my goddaughter needs to hear.

And.

Right.

Yeah. So. And as a. I will forever remember. This is one of the things that I learned from my favorite professors. One of my favorite professors was words. Language has the power that we give it. So if you don't give that curse word, like, power, as in, like, it's a. It's a bad word or whatever, it loses its power. Now, there are appropriate places and times, you know, like, for that. Just, like, there's appropriate clothing to wear to certain places. There's appropriate. Right. Like, so you decide if it's the right place or time. But again, like, words give it. Give the power that we give them.

Right.

Right. Like, a word in and of itself is morally neutral.

Yeah.

Like, the letters are morally neutral. It's the, like, meaning that you give it. And so. Right. If you don't want your eight year old to hear the f word. And I'm not saying that because, like, we don't hear. We choose not to use, you know, language that might be offensive to some people.

Like, wasn't there some gum backlash about, um, who. Who was the middle band that. That was christian and now it's not. I think it's, um.

Under oath.

Under oath.

That's a perfect example. Yes, under oath. Who was a christian band? They absolutely were a christian band.

Metal band, mind you.

Yeah, christian metal band.

They're great. Yeah.

And they. And we had a whole discussion about this on not religious, about bands going post christian. Right. They started out as a christian band. They were on a christian record label. And guess what? Shocker. The christian record label was messed up. The christian record label saying, you can't do this. You can't say this, you can't wear this, you can't do this. Whatever.

Yep, yep.

And rightfully so. Like, you are dictating their entire artistic creativity. And they didn't like it. They had a problem with churches being like, hey, you guys are. You know, you claim to be christians, but I saw you at the bar having a beer. Like, yeah, dude, we drink, but we also are Christians. Like that, you know? And they were like, no, no, no, and completely chastise them to the point where they were like, okay, you know what? I'm gonna walk away from all this. And the church should be ashamed of themselves. Honestly, behind all this, the church. Christians need to be ashamed of themselves by the way that they act and the way that they treat people, because it's. It's. It's sickening. It's disgusting. I hate it, and I'm embarrassed a lot of times associated with.

Is it one of the ten commandments? Don't. Don't judge anybody.

Yeah. I mean, it's gotta be, like, number.

One or number two.

Like, and I like to say there is no hate. Like, christian love.

Oh, my God. You ain't lying. Come on, preach, preach.

And, you know, I'll just like, do you know what the difference between, um, a Baptist and a Presbyterian is?

One will wave at you in the liquor store.

Exactly.

Because it's true. It is 100% true. Yeah, 100% true.

Yeah.

And you know what? Like, here. Here's another point I have. Taylor Swift obviously has experienced church hurt like the rest of us. These lyrics would not be written in the way that they are written had she not experienced. And. And though, like, she has. I mean, yes, she has been a superstar since she was 16 years old. So she has not, like, that's.

Yeah, that's young, right?

So she's been on the road. She's been, you know, been a superstar for a long time. So she has never been, I'm sure, like, heavily involved in age. I can't speak about her younger years, but, like, heavily involved in a church because she's been on the road, man. Right. But her relationship with God has been there the whole time. But even still, she has had it worse than all of us, honestly, because she gets it from the whole world, not just one church that is talking crap about her. She's getting it from the entire universe, just, you know, coming down.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know. So she has experienced hurt. She has been through it just like the rest of us. And what does she do when she experiences hurt? She writes songs about it. Exactly. And she is good at it. She is so good at it. She is great at taking the emotions that she feels, puts them into a song. And just like the name of this podcast, when words fail, music speaks. That is exactly what she's doing. She. Her words cannot. She cannot put into words how she feels. I'm going to write a song about it. And then you know what happens? The rest of the world hears it and says, finally, this is exactly how I feel. I didn't know how to put it. Taylor Swift does it for me.

I honestly think that if we have her on this podcast, I won't be able to be able to talk to her.

I wouldn't be able to talk.

Because you are the biggest fans of Rhode island I've ever met in my life. In that, Frank. That's the greatest thing I've ever.

I think that, you know, one of the things that. That she has said that I love, and that fits right in with this, I believe that she was talking to Katie Couric, and I may be wrong on who she was being interviewed by.

Yeah.

But they were talking about, like, you know, all the writing about all of her exes, and then there was something about, well, so, you know, how do you feel about forgiving and forgetting or some version of that?

Yeah.

And she was like, well, forgiving. I mean, like, that's up to you, right? Like, you can forgive or not if they deserve it, forgive. If they don't, you know, that's not really your place. But forget, like, don't forget, because if you forget, then you leave room to be hurt again.

Yeah, absolutely.

And so, like, she is not forgetting. I don't know if she's forgiven and if it even, you know, she needs to do any forgiveness on her end. She may feel, you know, like she got. She said what she needed to say, and she's done. Yeah, but, like, you don't need to. Ah, she's just. Yeah, I just love her. I love her. I mean, but I love. I love even these people that are saying bad things about them. Because as a Christian, it is my job to love you.

Right. Yeah.

I don't have to approve of everything you do. I don't write. My job is to simply love you and not judge you. And so if you were coming after Taylor Swift, my opinion, my belief is that that is not Christian.

No, it's not your place. Not at all. Not your place.

And so that is like, yes, we've all experienced that hurt on some level. Churches are fallible. We all are. And I, you know, we kind of. I don't remember week we've joked about, like, I just pray harder and it'll take whatever that thing is away. And I think I've shared this, like, that. You know, I was at a church and somebody told me, well, if I prayed more than my mental illness would be healed. Yeah, I don't know about that. My. My. My retort was, what if the way that God healed me was making sure that God taught people and made people have the intelligence and the skills and the resources to create the medication.

Yeah.

That keeps my mental illness, well, you know, under control and keeps me living well.

Just imagine my predicament for a minute. You know, if I prayed that I would be healed from having a CP, I wouldn't have sleepy anymore. Hello. I still have CP because I really exactly like. Cuz. Cuz I physically remember I had to go, like, this was, like, when I was, like, 15 to 19 years old. Every year, I had to go to the doctor just so he could tell me that I'm still handicapped.

Mm hmm.

I'm like, you really need to. What? Hey, you know, I had to physically go to go to the doctor to tell him that I'm still disabled. I'm like, well, I kind of already know that I'm doctor, you know? You know? Well, yeah, yeah.

And I'm completely right there with you. I think that the whole, like, we'll pray about it. If you would pray about it.

Pray about it.

Circumstances would be different. Like, not always the case, dude.

No, but.

And I'm not saying that if. If, like, I'm not. Here's another thing where people get it twisted.

Yeah. We're not trying to.

I'm not saying miracles don't exist.

Right.

They do completely agree that. Miral, miracles exist.

They do.

I believe that there is spontaneous healing. Yeah, but for you to tell me if I pray harder, yeah, I would be healed. No, that I feel attacked. I feel like you. Not either of you, but, like, whoever's telling me that you're saying you're not faithful enough, because if you were right, you wouldn't have these struggles. If you were a better. Like, this is not being watched, but better in quotation marks. Human.

Yeah.

A better christian than you wouldn't. And that's just not true.

Well, I mean, all right, so I had to watch my dad just deteriorate from the age of 15. Yeah, you know, up, you know, and I was 15 years old when he got sick. I had to watch him just deteriorate for a year before he passed away. I was 16 years old when my dad died. What do you think I did the entire year? I prayed every day that my dad would be healed. And up until the very end, when I realized this is not in the cards for my dad, his health. Now, absolutely, God could. I believe that God could have healed him and totally changed the entire circumstance, completely wiped his cancer away, that had, you know, spread throughout his body. Um, and he would have been flipping, you know, doing backflips right there in the hospital. Absolutely could have done that. But he did. And I realized it wasn't going to happen leading up until when he finally passed away. And it was in those last few weeks when I realized this is not going to happen the way that I want it to happen. What I am going to accept is that his way of being healed is not suffering anymore. And if he has to die to be able to. Not to be in a state where he's not suffering anymore, then please take him. I don't want to watch him suffer anymore. I am watching him wither away, and I don't know how to handle it. But if I can get through it with the Lord's help, then please help me, because it's going to be hard for me, but I want that for my dad. I want him to be healed. I don't want to see him suffer anymore. And so I had to change my, my prayer because I. I knew this is not going to happen. He's not going to be healed.

But sometimes the prayer is, Lord, take the suffering and pain away.

I think he answers prayers, right?

And sometimes the answer to a prayer is right. It can be. Yes, no, not yet, right?

Yep.

And, you know, my father was diagnosed with cancer when I was twelve. He died when I was 19. Like, it was a very, like, it was a long, drawn out sort of thing.

Right.

But I think that there was still purpose in his illness. Like, he made changes, you know, in the world around him. He impacted people. He helped with some. What am I trying to say? Like, some research that helped other people live longer, fuller lives. And I'm grateful for all of that. Now, let me tell you that I was. Excuse me. I was furious. I was pissed off at God because I lost my dad. God took my dad away from me. That is how it felt.

Yeah.

And I was furious. And you know what? God is big enough that he can handle my anger.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. 100%.

And it took some time, and, you know, like, I think that. And I've shared this, like, when I finally got my mental health, like, under control, it was because I heard what, in my opinion, was the Holy Spirit say, I'm not done with you yet.

Yeah.

And that was eight years ago. And I think about the things that I have done in the last eight years, not just for myself or for my family, but, quite frankly, for the world. Like, I have raised awareness about mental health, things. I have impacted other people. I have a job that I believe helps people. And so, like, for me, like. And also, like, if I hadn't listened to that message, like, how self important and, like, I don't know the word like, that I'm looking for would be. But I just realized that you're wearing a Kansas City hat. Sorry, I'm running. Just had a, like, oh, look at that. So. But I just think that, you know, like, we don't understand people's faith. Like, the whole story. We don't understand, you know, where Taylor Swift has been, where she's going, what journey she's on. And it is not our job to judge. It is our job to just show love. And if you don't like her music and if you think that it's whatever you think it is, blasphemous, whatever, don't listen to it and move on.

Amanda, I realize that you're very passionate about this conversation, because you know why? You know what? I mentioned that Blake had a plan before this episode.

Did you mention it before? And I totally missed it.

That's amazing.

I'm totally, like, in my.

Hey, man, if you're.

Raised.

I know. Yeah. Because I was like, oh, yeah, you're aware that kids.

But clearly. But look, I got enough of, like, it out that I was able to, like, be aware in defense.

The light. My light is very bright, and the logo is, like, silver.

Silver.

But, yeah.

And usually, you know, we're using the.

Hail, but I flipped it around this time because, like, because I'm supporting. Right?

There you go. Yeah, there we go.

Um, and here's. Here's another little bullet point I have. And then I've got something I wanted to share with everybody, but, okay. If you think that her. Her lyrics taking aim at christians is wrong, I think you need to take a look in the mirror. Just like what you said, Amanda. Like, christians are the first ones to be like, you can't do this. But then they will do the thing that they are saying. You cannot do. So if you. If you are sitting here judging her, because, number one, I don't think it's fair to crap all over her because you're tired of hearing about her. You're tired of seeing her at the Super bowl. You're tired of hearing her songs on the radio. You're tired of her being the biggest pop artist for the past four years. Like, you're just. If you're tired of her, that doesn't give you a reason to just to blast her.

Here's. Okay, so here's what I do. If you're tired of seeing her on the Super bowl, don't watch the Super Bowl.

I watch the Super Bowl. 20 seconds of airtime in the four hour football game.

You tired her on radio. Turn the channel like I do. Win over. Always come fun. So, yeah, yeah, I feel a lot like Vince Limbo. So I take that event, so. Huh. You do? Well, you know, but, yeah, we need to do the episode where. Where you're trying to get me in the. In the event. Simple camp.

Yes, I will. I will do that. And then you were supposed to get me into sleep. Token. No bad omens.

The one that covered her song.

Camera. I mean, there was somebody, I was like, nope, not interested. But you're gonna talk me into him. Yeah, one day. So I have a message here from my friend Lindley, who is a massive. And when I say massive, that is an understatement. She's a massive. Swifty, who is also a very devout Christian. I have gone to church with Linley at different churches throughout our history and our friendship, but I reached out to her and I was like, can you give me, like, some perspective of someone who is a Christian? Swifty, and your thoughts on the new album and how the christian community is kind of handling it? So she texted me, said I could use this in the podcast. So here we go. As a Christian, Swifty, I've gotten a lot of backlash for loving the new album that she. She just put out the torture poets department. I think most of the questions from this album come from the song guilty of sin. The line, what if I roll the stone away? They're gonna crucify me anyway. Now, if you listen to it without understanding the lore, I could see how someone would come across, how it could come across to others as mocking Christianity. And that's what I've seen the most from, is Christian. That's what I've seen the most from. Christians, however, do not see it as mocking Christianity at all. I see it as a metaphor and the metaphor is used accurately. She is talking about how even if she rolls the stone away, it doesn't matter because everyone will still crucify her or not like her or judge her. I think where the problem could come up is that it seems like she is taking something that is super sacred to christians and just using it as a story, but without being a christian worship song, I don't know how this song could be more theologically accurate. The lyric and but daddy, I love him that says Sarah's and Hannah's and their Sunday best clutching their pearls citing sign what address is explaining the hypocritical christians? Which is funny because that seems to be a perfect description of all the christians that have an issue with this album. Hypocritical she is. She really hit the nail on the head with that one. Religious metaphors are used in so many songs, and some of the songs, some of those songs are ones that those christians that have a problem with Taylor Swift are listening to quite often, religious symbols and references have always been present in music, speaking to universal ideals of faith as well as complex, individualized relationships between artists and spirituality. From metal to folk, religious imagery and patterns are used frequently to convey emotion. I think it all boils down to discernment. If you can't listen to the songs without questioning your faith, then maybe they're not for you. But on that same note, if you are teetering on the line of faith simply because of a musician, then you might need to reconsider your heart and not Taylor Swift's. I feel as if the Christians, quote unquote, christians who have criticized her would spend as much time reading the Bible as they have spent trying to understand what these songs mean or how they talk or how they talk down on Christianity, these conversations wouldn't even be happening. So thank you, Lindley, for your insight on that and some perspective, because I've witnessed some, some attacks on some friends of mine who are Taylor Swift fans supporting the new album. And just, just people that I know, like, you know, like, it's not always coming from a place of, like, hatred, but most of the time it is. It's coming from a place of, like, I feel the need as a Christian, it is my christian duty to get into an argument with somebody on Facebook about something. And I think that's, that's not the place for it. I think if you truly cared about your. About somebody that you know, who, if you're, if you were genuinely concerned about their religious stance, like maybe they're listening to the Taylor Swift album, they rubbed you the wrong way. Think the best way to handle it is be like, hey, can we get together sometime? Can we just, like, sit down and talk? I'm curious. I want to pick your brain as to what your thoughts are, right? But we don't do that. We just take the opportunity to say, well, I'm gonna get my. I'm gonna get my, my. Where they call it the. Another jewel in my crown. If I call this. This person out on. On Instagram because they. They're listening to an album that I don't support. But I think another important thing that she pointed out in there is people don't take the time to really, like, dissect it like we're doing. So maybe if you're listening to this and you haven't taken the time to really, like, listen to the Taylor Swift album, to really listen to the lyrics, to read the lyrics and try to dissect what she's talking about, you just read a couple lines. Or maybe you saw the explicit symbol beside the songs and just automatically was like, she's falling off the deep end. Like, just take a minute, dude. Research. I listen for. For Spook show. For a South Carolina spook show, I have to put the explicit symbol beside the lyrics because guess what I talk about. Murder. Yeah. Like, really dark.

Yeah, that's dark.

Yeah, I'm dropping the f bomb. It's because they're dark topics. They're not suitable for children. I have to put a disclaimer at the beginning of the podcast. Some material is not appropriate for a younger audience. Listener to discretion is advised. That right there. Listener discretion is advised. Parent your child. If you don't want your eight year old listening to Taylor Swift because she says the f word a couple times, don't let her listen to it, by all means, but have that conversation with your child. Don't allow Taylor Swift or anyone else to parent your child. You parent your child. Sit them down. Hey, listen, I know you like Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift's a great artist. But some of the lyrics that she has in her song, she says some bad words, and I just don't want you to hear it. So, like, maybe when you're older, we can. We can, you know, like, come back to that when you hit an age. Like, listen, dude, here's another example. My mom, very devout christian woman, doesn't cuss. Never heard her cuss. Doesn't like listening to work, to songs that have cussing in it and things like that, didn't allow me to listen to music that had explicit language when I was a kid, and rightfully so, but when I got to the age where I could listen to it, and I knew, like, hey, like, talking like this is probably not a good idea, you know, like, you know, like. And I'm also listening to, you know, I'm listening to things where there. It may be violent material. I'm watching horror movies. Watching a, you know, a slasher movie where they're hacking people up. I know that's wrong. I'm not gonna do it, but it's entertainment to me. Like, I'm watching the movie because I want to watch it. Right. But I know that is wrong. And I have enough discernment that I can listen to it and I can watch it, and I can be like, hey, that's wrong. But for the sake of consuming media that interests me, I. I'm gonna separate the two. And we just don't do that.

Yeah. Yes. And as a parent is a parent. My children are now older. They're 15 and 16. I believe that they can make really great decisions for themselves. You know why I feel like they can make really great decisions for themselves? Because. Yeah, that. Well, and I taught them when they were little. Right. Like, I did my job as a parent so that they could be discerning. Right. They have discernment over what is happening in the world and in song lyrics or whatever else we want to, you know, say. And so I think that my kids might curse at home. Language is not a thing. That is a thing for me.

Yeah.

And they know that they cannot use that same language when they are at church or when they are in school, because there is a time and a place for things.

Exactly.

But they know that because I taught them, because we've had discussions. And so if you are a parent, do your job. It is not Taylor Swift's job to parent your children. It is not Taylor Swift's job to make sure that your child doesn't hear a curse word. Yeah, but it is your job as a parent to teach your child appropriate behavior for the time and the place and the people and all of that.

Right.

That's what I got.

There it is. Geez Louise, man.

So how about we end with a mental health minute, and then that's fine?

I feel like this whole episode has been one big mental health minute.

It kind of has, like, having this little venting, getting some. I didn't realize how much I was holding in about this, but we're gonna totally shift, but not really because we know that Taylor Swift loves her cats.

Yes. Yes, she does.

And so we're gonna talk a little bit for just a minute about some of the potential possible mental health benefits of having pets. So there are a couple things. One, like, if you take your pets for a walk or, you know, you're active with them, that's great for your body, right? Because, like, moving your body and being active is awesome. It can provide companionship so that we feel less lonely, especially for people who are elderly. It gives them kind of a purpose, too. And when you're in kind of the depths of some of the mental health stuff, it can give you something to live for, to take care of. Like, it gets you out of bed because you have an animal to take care of. Studies have shown that it can reduce your anxiety level and lower your blood pressure when you snuggle with your pet. And, you know, there's also, like, you know, service animals and all of that that can serve specific tasks or, you know, but at the end of the day, pets, they're awesome, and you can snuggle with them, and they can make things better. Now, if you're, like, allergic to cats, like I am. Don't have cats. They try to kill me. They're awful. They're evil. I hate them. They just.

Wait a minute, y'all.

I guess y'all.

Y'all are both allergic to cats.

Oh, yeah.

I knew allergic to cats. I am, too. Amazing. Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah. And it's not just like I thought.

I was the only one who.

I'm even allergic to dogs that shed.

That's why I have really.

But I do take clarity if I know that I'm gonna be around cats and that, like, you know, gets rid of the itching info, but still, I don't.

Well, after I took allergy shots, my allergy got significantly better. Oh, yeah.

I love doggies.

No, man, I have three dogs. You all have heard them.

Yeah, I love them. Yeah, we've heard.

But, yeah, they give me, you know, like, they're fun. So pets. And you know what? Like, maybe if you are in a living situation that doesn't allow for pets, I don't know, go to the animal shelter and, like, play with some of the pets there, and then, like, look, you are doing service to your community. You're getting to snuggle and love on some other animals, and, like, you're just. It's all around awesome.

So technically, there's a way to get around that, you know, register it as a service dog, and you could have it.

They have to be able to perform a specific task to be a service dog. And you. And, I mean, I don't know that you have to actually be able to prove it, but, you know, for people with, like, ADHD, they're actually like.

Yeah, yeah.

A dog can help with, like, monitoring your time or.

Or. Or been PTSD. You know, those.

Or. I have a friend that has pots, which I cannot remember what it stands for, but her. Her heart rate will, like, just drop suddenly.

Yeah.

And she has a service, um, dog that can sense that, like, drop is coming. There are dogs that can detect allergens.

Ooh.

There are dogs that can detect blood sugar, you know, lows and highs, so that they're, um.

Dogs are the only animals that can. That they have, like, ten times better. The smell that we do. Right. Or something.

Oh, I mean, they're.

Yeah, they're.

But, yeah, so go. Go hang out with some animals or just watch some, you know, fun cat videos or dog videos or something.

Yeah.

There's a whole lot of really great Instagram accounts out there.

Yeah.

That are just fun dogs. There's one my daughter keeps sending me. I don't know the name of it. I could probably find it really quickly because she sends it to me, like, every other day on Instagram, or maybe more than that, but it's of a little dachshund, and its owner puts it in front of their ring doorbell camera and talks.

Oh, I've seen that one. Yeah.

And it's adorable. And I don't know why I find it as much fun as I find it, but I do, because who doesn't?

You doesn't.

He doesn't love a dachshund.

Right?

Oh, my gosh. Okay, y'all, I've been through probably I'm to May 1, and I still haven't. Okay, found it, Jack. Store bell jingles I love that.

Okay.

Is that on tick tock, you said?

No, it's on instagram. Probably.

Probably on TikTok.

Probably the same thing. Yeah.

Okay, I am sending it to the group.

Yeah.

So you all can find it. And then I got it. Yeah. So it's. It's fun. Um, so just, yeah, like, look at some cats or dogs or snuggle yours and.

Yeah.

Remember that there are people. Actually. My mom love you.

My mom is so funny because my mom, dad, they've had, like, four or five now. Four or five trowelas.

Yeah.

And my mom cannot be without a dog. And the dog that she got now, missy, she's like, I probably wouldn't be alive if I haven't gotten his dog. And I. And I. She strongly believes that, and I believe it, too. That dog gives her so much joy in life now.

It's like they bring joy. They give you. They feel, like, for me. For me, because we don't have kids, but, like, our. And I know, like, people sometimes like dog. No pun intended, all over. People who, like, treat their pets like their. Their children. But honestly, like, I would do anything for my. For my poodles and my morky.

Yeah.

Love them. They depend on me, and that gives me purpose. Like, the fact that they depend on me to feed them. They depend on us to take them to get their. Get groomed, to go get their vaccinations. Like, they. And they're. They're genuinely happy to see you every time you walk into a room. It gives purpose.

Yeah.

And I absolutely. I wholeheartedly agree with that. It is. It is a beautiful thing having. Having pets. And we are. We are definitely dog lovers.

I've actually seen my mom's dog dance when. When my mom gets in the room, she's like, oh, my God, you're here.

You know, like, full body and I'm big.

Yeah. Yeah. I love dogs. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, it's. I don't know. I love dogs. They're. They're my jam.

Yeah.

I've got three at this house and then one at the lake.

Cats on the other end. Yeah. But, you know, but we're all.

I love cats. I'm not against cats. They just try to kill me with their dander and so I choose to be around them.

I'm against cats because of that.

Yeah.

You know, that's the fair assessment, right?

Yeah, exactly. So awesome how you guys feel.

I feel better.

I feel better now.

Yeah.

Feel so much better. I didn't realize, like, how much.

How much aggression you had to build.

Yeah. There was still. There was a lot.

Yeah.

That I didn't realize.

With us then, you're wrong and it's fine. But you can message us and maybe we'll have you on the show and we'll talk about it.

Yeah, I would love. I mean, I wouldn't hate having a conversation, but, like, a true discussion. Like, don't come in and play.

Exactly.

Like, can we get the girl who wrote that for us? Can we get her on the show?

Absolutely.

Okay, great.

Lindley would love to come on.

Yeah. Yeah. Reach out, because I would. I would love to talk to her, and I'm sure Amanda would, too.

Sure.

Yeah. Okay, great.

All right, awesome. Cool. Deal. Well, let's get out of here.

Yeah.

Awesome. Thanks, all y'all. All y'all. I love that, all y'all for listening to the show today. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe and leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or wherever else you can.

Yeah. And if you'd like to follow the show on social media, we're on Facebook, we're on X, we're on Instagram, and we're on tick tock. Just search for when words fail, music speaks podcast and give us a follow.

Yeah. And if you're musician, would like to be interviewed on the show, reach out to us on email. We can email us at James I wouldn't worry. Music calm. Amanda Dylan, that's do l I n. I still do that for some odd reason. I'm sorry.

I think it's important. No one needs to be spelled a certain way.

And I'm sure people still spelled out wrong, don't they?

Yes.

Yeah. So there you go.

Wild.

There you go.

Put a cue in there and it wouldn't go through.

That's right. Yeah. Amanda [email protected] or [email protected] or you can mess with us on any of the social sites Blake mentioned before.

And please subscribe to our YouTube channel where you can watch interviews, music, video reactions, vinyl showcases and more. You can find [email protected] when words fail, music speaks, be sure to turn on the notification bell so you can be notified when new videos are uploaded. If you are currently watching this on YouTube, hit. Actually, not hit. I'm sorry. Belly flop. That, like, button.

Yeah, I did it. Yeah. Let me do it again. Boom.

Oh, we missed it. Oh, we got it that time.

Perfect. We got it. Yeah. Yeah. So, oh, yeah. It's my turn for all of these links. To find out more about us or to buy some of our awesome merchandise visited our website when word channel music speaks.com.

Heck yeah. And if you don't mind checking out my other podcast, that is called South Carolina spook Show, it is explicit, and there's lots of cursing.

No, just that.

But there's lots of talks about murder and things like that. So go check it out, though, because even though it's dark, it's, it's an interesting topic. And if you're like me, sometimes that's just interesting stuff. So it's called South Carolina spook Show. It's all about true crime and paranormal stories from the state of South Carolina. So if you're into that, go check it out. It's where it's available wherever you listen to podcasts.

And if you would, check out my other project, which is the mental society, it's website with a whole bunch of resources and also have some podcast episodes talking all about different kinds of mental health right now. Lots of focus on adhd, including like, you know, there's drug shortages and all kinds of stuff. So yeah, check that out. Learn a little bit more about how mental health and society meet. And you can do [email protected]. It did not already say that.

And thank you very much to our sponsors for this episode, bonecoffee and betterhelp.com. Remember to use this account code. Musicspeaks all one word checkout for 10% off your [email protected]. And also remember to go to bigger help slash music speaks. You also get a 10% discount off your first month of therapy and get matched with a therapist that is perfect for you.

Boom. So shaka laka, shaka laka.

Yes.

All right.

Awesome.

You guys got anything?

I think we're out. Yes.

Yeah.

So, everybody, thank you for listening. And always remember, when words fail, music speaks. Bye, guys.

Goodbye. Whoa.