Ep.313 – Dave Perry (Fear Of Water) Interview

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This is the Widow Tale Music speaks podcast with Blake Mosley, James Cox, and Amanda Dolan. Hey, welcome back to Woodenworthy Music speaks podcast. This is your handicapped host, James Cox. And I'm back with you for another awesome interview. And I think by. By the end of this interview, we will. Me and Dave will become best friends, hopefully 100%. See, we're already the best friends. How about that?

We're gonna. We're gonna start a business together and maybe join a band and the whole thing. Yeah.

Well, something about you. Okay, I'm getting ahead of myself. I'm interviewing Dave Perry. He was. He is, I should say, the drummer formal for the band raw.

Correct.

Ra. Which is awesome. I loved raw back in the heyday, you know, and Astro do. And you are the drum tick for nothing more, right?

Yes, yes. Yeah.

Yes, yes. We're gonna talk about that, too. And, uh, you have a band called fear of water.

That is also correct.

And I am also afraid of water. I. Okay, so. So where. So where did I then come from? Are you, like. I could be. I can't swim. Worth a. Worth lick. You know, I used to swim, but something happened in the water, and I'm like, oh, so, yeah, where did the fear wired to come from?

Understood. So it's not. It's not about an actual fear of water. It's actually a reference to. It's a. It's kind of a creative nod to the fact that humans are comprised of, you know, about 80% water. And I've been, you know, making, um, music under the name fear of waters, basically since I was in high school. And one of the, like, guiding factors of. Of my writing process and, like, how I was using music to process emotions and just have this cathartic experience was, was this over. I was very overwhelmed by this dominant force of, like, cliques and, like, people feeling the need to, like, have their tribe and, like, all look the same and, like, there's a pretty well defined and agreed upon thing of, like, what's cool and what's not and what's fashionable and what's not and what's hot, what's not. And I think in the process of a lot of people pursuing, achieving that, being the most mainstream, the most accepted that they completely turn their backs on who they really are and metaphorically speaking, like, their water, like, what they're actually comprised of in the name of being accepted or being part of a community. And I'm not saying that I'm above that or I'm immune to that, but just have been constantly aware of that struggle. And it's really sad to see because sometimes you get to know some people on a deeper level and you learn this, like, beautiful truth about them that they hide from the world because they have a fear of being rejected or that their significant other won't accept them for this or they're, you know, they're just extremely introverted or whatever. And I think that that's a very sad part of western civilization is this, like, we don't encourage everyone to truly be themselves. And then by being yourself, you know, you'll find your tribe that way instead of being like, oh, I desire to be a part of this group, so I'm going to change who I am and repress these, like, key parts of me in. Or in an attempt to be accepted. So it's really that fear of water is really about that. Fear of individuality, fear of being rejected by society in the name of being yourself.

Yeah. Sometimes it's very, very hard to find your true calling, you know, true, true friends and family, you know?

Yeah, dude.

Because sometimes. Most times, those friends aren't your friends, you know, anymore, and they'll, you know, so.

Absolutely. I think that's. It's a huge part of the, like, human experience again, certainly in western civilization. And a lot of our identity gets tied up in that, you know, the size of my friend group or the whatever social currency of those people defines my social currency. And I get it. Like, I get we're kind of, like, conditioned to be put into that system, starting with school, and then you come out of school into the real world, you know, thoroughly trained to be, like, cool. I need to replicate this model at college and in my whatever fraternity or organizations that I join or what job I get and it's like, it's very toxic and it's fortunate for better or for worse. Like, there's pros and cons of this, but like, I. As life has gone on, I have started my own business and, you know, for the most part make music by myself. So I, like, really have removed even the opportunity to dilute myself and adhere to what social norms are because I've isolated myself in that way as well. Yeah, it's interesting, man. Like, it's. I. I think you kind of need to do that or a lot of people would benefit from removing yourself, even if it's just like unplugging from social media for a while or like, go camping for a whole week, or it's just like, remove yourself from the normal day to day grind and get in touch with who you are, embrace your weirdness, whatever. Like, life is too short to not be yourself.

See, that's it. Yeah, cuz I had it. I had to delete my whole Facebook like, like twice, you know, just. Oh, yeah. Cuz with me it's kind of, it's kind of like a, like a yesterday, you know? Yeah, social media is good, but yes, social media is also bad for you because of your mental health and everything. And I suffered with depression and I just got really out of it. So I had to delete my account for twice, you know, twice before, and I felt, like, wonderful when I came back on. So.

Good. You took that break. That's really important.

Yes, absolutely. For, for your mental health and your, you know, conscious awareness, you know, too.

So I can't imagine what kids are going through with social media. Like, that horrifies me to know that, like, you know, I wasn't bullied and so I've always been like, a very large person. So you, the big dudes tend not to get picked on, but I saw plenty of bullying. But the thing is, is that when I went to school, bullying pretty much stopped at school, which is still, you know, it sucks, but like eight hour chunk of your life and now it like, follows you everywhere. If you have a phone in your. You have social media and obviously that extends beyond school, but it's just like, when you grow up, I just, I. My heart breaks for these kids who grow up where social media is just the norm. And it's just, it is the way that we communicate and it's an extension of your personality and that probably even further exacerbates this, the fear of water, you know, complex that I'm talking about. We're like, you had to worry about how you look and how you sound and who you hang out with at school and physical location. Now you have to worry about it all the fucking time.

Especially how. Who you listen to when you were growing up. Because if you listen to country, you're automatically, you know, exiled by the metal heads. And, you know, man, I love country. Culture is my favorite genre. What's. What's yours? Has it always been rock and metal?

Uh, it's definitely not been metal. That. That's been more of an acquired taste. I mean, I love metal now, but, like, early on, so I had two younger brothers, or, sorry, I'm the youngest. I had two older brothers. And I think it pretty common in that kind of scenario is that I inherited music from my brothers, and my so oldest brother's four years older than me. So, like, I'm a. I'm a technically a child of that. Born in the eighties was, like, in my childhood in the nineties. And I kind of in a sweet spot of, like, inheriting all of this grunge music a little bit after its prime, you know? Like, you know, what's crazy is that actually, I believe today is the anniversary of Kurt Cobain's suicide. And I vividly, vividly remember exactly where I was coming out of my bedroom. My oldest brother was on his knees in front of the tv, sobbing as Kurt Loder. I just got goosebumps thinking about this as there's this helicopter shot over his house in Courtney Love's house in Seattle, and there's, you know, the police are taping it off, whatever, and they're describing that he shot himself and brutal man like. But, yeah. So to answer your question, nineties grunge absolutely was, like, my first favorite genre of music. And as my relationship with music has expanded and certainly as I've gotten into music, like, for me, this might sound, like, stupidly vague, but, like, good music is good music. I wouldn't describe myself as a country fan, but there's a bunch of country artists, and, like, people like, Chris Stapleton, to me, is not exclusively a country artist. He has, like, rock and rockabilly and soul and, like, r and b and. And he's awesome. Like, so there's Zach Brown I feel similarly about, too. So, like, yeah, so I feel that way about many, many artists and many categories of music, even though I wouldn't say that, like, as a whole, I'm a country fan or I'm a rap fan or something like that. But there are. There are exceptions across the board, because good music is good music, right?

I would say as a teenager, I was strictly metal. And then I got into. Well, my parents raised me up country, and I got into rock and metal, like, religiously. And then I.

But that's an interesting transition. Like, how does that transition happen from country to that?

So from birth till 13, maybe, or 14, I don't know when Metallica's black album came out, but 92 ish, maybe? Yes, yes. Twelve. Okay, so. So birth to twelve years old, I was country, you know, Danceville, Auburn, and, you know, I could name off a whole lot of boys. Yeah. Me, my sister was raised on country, right? And then when twelve, we load it. I heard on MTV. They're great MTV back then. Yeah, yeah, that Metallica came up with an album called Black Album. And I'm like, oh, my God, I got. You know. And I asked him why I'm there. And she got me to cassette. I don't know. Well, you remember cassettes?

Oh, yeah, man, I had many, many. I had a walk, man. I had many, many, many cassettes. Not even just of the. In fact, some of the. My exposure to older music, like Rush, Genesis, Phil Collins, Aerosmith, Robert Palmer. I can think of so many artists before my time that I had cassettes of that. That's how I got into that. Yeah, dude, I love that they did that, man. I thought that that was really cool. And I like that there's an appetite for that. Like, I like that fans get on board with. I think there's something cool about that.

It slowly comes me back as a long time. Vinyl was like a big no no. You know, Cassidy's red and what's old is new again because vinyl's coming back in the big. You know. I mean, I don't have to say, you know. I mean, I got transback here, and. And cassettes are here and there, you know, sporadically. But, um.

But on that black album, I vividly remember seeing the enter Sandman video for the first time and be like, holy. And Metallica on that album is the first concert I ever went to. I was, like, seven. But, yeah, I was with my best friend and his parents took us to that, and it set the bar so high for, like, what? Cause it was just, you know, it's an arena show. It was huge. Like, pyro and, like, crazy screens and incredibly loud. And that had a huge, huge impact on me. I've been definitely a lifelong Metallica fan, for sure.

Yeah. But when I found out about Metallica, I heard about Dave Mustang, and I'm like, who is making this? So you know, it's still from there, man. And I, and I was a real avid rock metal fan for years till I got. Until I branched out and listening to more music, you know, different kinds of music.

Did you have a preference, like, being.

So.

I wasn't aware of the, like, because I didn't get into, like, music journalism until much later. I didn't give that much of a shit to, like, start reading interviews and history and stuff. So I didn't realize the connection of early Metallica days. And then the Megadeth split off and everything and. But I was plenty aware of Megadeth and was listening to a lot of Megadeth. Did you have a preference between the two? Because they're not like, Megadeth is decidedly a different band. Like, it is a different flavor metal.

So, yes, I did. I was strictly a Metallica freak, you know, back when I was teenagers, you know, kill them all to black album was great. I loved load. I didn't really like reloading and just doing it all from there.

Yeah.

But now, if you ask me now, between the two, I would say Megadeth because of consistency, you know, every, what, five, six years Megadeth is every year.

It's a lot of albums there.

And that's so great music, you know. I mean, I don't know how Dave does it, but he's coming out with bangers every day, every album, you know.

I went to a Megadeth concert in many years ago with my oldest brother, and we were probably in our late twenties, and we were easily the youngest people there, which doesn't matter to me. In fact, I like when multi generational people can like music. But Dave. Dave came out on stage and for the. Right before the first song, he's like, doctor said I got carpal tunnel syndrome and can't play anymore. But check this out. Motherf. Like, yeah, yeah, I mean, he's just been grinding for literally, I mean, probably close to 40 years at this point. Like you said, way more prolific touring all the time, putting out albums all the time.

Yeah, it seems like.

Some kind of monster. The Metallica documentary about making St. Anger.

So I have. Okay, so I did not like the album when it came out. Now I have total respect for it now because I saw what they went through waking it and, oh, my God, I love that album now. You know, it's one of my albums. You know, it's.

That's. I still struggle to love the album, but the documentary is one of my favorite music documentaries of all time. I really like the scene where Lars sits down with Dave and they kind of, like, hash it out. And it's weird. As someone who's, like, an aspiring, you know, I am a musician, but I aspire, you know, to much grander levels. To see Dave mustaine sitting there, who, by all metrics, is an incredibly successful, if not legendary musician at this point, and was a part of the biggest metal band of all time for a very critical time period. But he still has this resentment where he's like, Metallica fans f cking hate me. I've only sold 15 million, you've sold 500 million, or whatever it is. And he's. And he, like, lives with this. It's like he can't enjoy his own enormous success because it's not Metallica, which is very tragic to me. It's very sad to know that he has, for all intents and purposes, achieved a dream of. I mean, he has achieved what, like, one 1,000,000th of 1% will ever achieve and the human experience, and it's still tainted by the fact that it's not Metallica. It's very unfortunate. I hope that came out 1015 years ago. I hope he has evolved past that. I hope he doesn't feel that way anymore because he's achieving absolute greatness.

To be kicked out of a band like that, bring anybody, and then make your own men and be a lot more element, play more successful, but they're more successful in their own right. I mean, just a lot about the dude, you know, I mean, great, you know, for sure.

And you're fighting against. You're not just, like, basically starting from scratch and achieving success. There was that feeling of Metallica fans being like, fuck you. Like, you're not anti Metallica, so you're actually, like, it's an uphill battle despite the fact that you're, like, super talented and I have tons of respect for Dave and what he was able to achieve. And it's still going very, very strong and by many metrics, has done much better than Metallica because of, like you said, the consistency and just how often they're putting out new music and good music. Like, me and my brother still, like, bust out new Megadeth albums. Like, damn, this is sick.

Yeah, I think they're coming out well. Have they come out with a one out? Because I know they're coming out with one in the near future. Right. With the new guitarist. I don't know.

Yeah, because Kiko.

Yeah. Which is interesting.

So I like that this is actually kind of a good segue into getting about what I'm trying to do right now is that it's. It's very encouraging for me to see someone like Kiko getting into Megadeth. And Luke Holland, this phenomenal drummer who's. Who started with, like, basically a social media presence, being the drummer for falling in reverse, is that I see myself on this path where it's unconventional, but there are these phenomenal musicians. And I'm not saying that I'm at Kiko's level, that he's a machu, but. But there are these people out there who have built, has. Have basically developed them themselves, their career, their brand, whatever, as a solo artist. And with the advent of social media that's created these opportunities for them to show their versatility and do collaborations with, like, what I'm doing with all these different bands. And my goal with this is to make people aware of and love fear of water. But that is a transition for me to go to the Kiko route, to go to the Luke Holland route. There's several other examples of this, of guys who have proven themselves individually, which is, in many respects, much harder than being with a group of four other super talented people and then having all the responsibilities and work and logistics split between those five people. You know, achieving success in music as a whole, very difficult. Doing it by yourself is even more difficult. So it's very encouraging for me to see guys like Kiko and Luke kicking ass, rightfully deserved, because they're so talented. But there's a lot more than talent that goes into becoming successful and having longevity in this industry. So I'm very encouraged by. By their path, and I'm following in their footsteps.

So before we talk more about. About your musical efforts here, I. When I grow up, I want to be like you. Okay. And by that, I want to ask you about this picture that I found on your Facebook page.

Oh, my literal hero.

My, yes, but with Mister Dave. Or for the audio, people listening in right now could tell me, I mean, like, what. Where did this picture right from?

I mean, I'm happy. I'm happy to talk about it. Something that I also really like is that in the. In the screen that you have up, you can also see in the comments section that I posted, I took pictures with my phone of photos I had developed when I was in high school, of my childhood bedroom, which is a mess, by the way, but showing that, like, I literally have an entire. I'm 40, and since I've been. Since I've been nine, Dave Grohl has been a part of my musical journey. And, you know, I loved. I loved Nirvana. And it took a while for me to be focused on Dave as part. I liked Nirvana as a whole, but then Dave became the standout thing. Like I said, I vividly remember Kurt's death being announced, and then pretty quickly, foo Fighters. So that first Foo Fighter album was made while Nirvana was still a thing. There you go. Johnny on the spot, man. You got, like, all the ready to go.

Yeah, see, that's what I. Okay, so for four years, I don't know if this is still true, but for years, he told everyone he hates this album, and I. This is my favorite album ever from him. Is it. I mean, is it yours? Is this your favorite, or do you have.

It is. Ooh, that's tough. So it's not my. It's not favorite, but it's incredibly important to me. Like, yeah, I would love to hear that album re recorded. And I know a lot of people cringe when. Cause it's, like, classic because of the way that it is. But, like, the. It's recording, whatever. It's just. It's. It has a very garage sound to it that I love. But just future Foo Fighter albums, even just the next one, the color and the shape is my favorite. It just. It was this phenomenal evolution from the first one, and so many classics on it. But also, like, the deep cuts are amazing. They're still some of my favorite heavy Foo Fighter songs are also off of that album. And, you know, Dave persevering through that, not only that loss, but, like, he immediately coming out of that, was given so many. I hate when this thumbs up emoji pops up out of nowhere. He was given this offer to become Tom Petty's drummer, and he did play with Tom Petty on SNL shortly after Kurt's death. And basically he said no to becoming the permanent drummer for one of the biggest rockers of all time. And unbelievable amounts of money. Like, unbelievable money, right?

Yeah.

And I have so much respect for him that he said, no, I'm going to start from scratch. And again, this is like, pre for. I mean, pretty much pre Internet, let alone pre social media, where, you know, it's not like he had a ton of visibility at that point to be like, what's up, fam? I've started my own thing. Like, and subscribe here. Like, it. Like, that first album was literally on cassette tape being passed around people in different, like, mixer groups. So, like, he. And even I love that at the point in time where he put the actual band together, he still, despite the fact being a multimillionaire at that point, he insisted that they do it in a van. No tour bus, no. Like, they're like, if we're gonna fucking do this, this is how we bond as a band, and this is how we take this seriously, is that we don't start at the pinnacle just because I have a ton of money and I don't want to lean on the success of Nirvana. And there's still to this day, so many people that are surprised to hear that Dave Grohl, the drummer of Nirvana. So, anyways, for all of those reasons and so many more, he's been this enormous, uh, inspiration to me. Especially as I learned early on that I was. Had this incredible attraction to multiple instruments. And he was the first guy that I was really aware of. Him and Trent Reznor, of guys that are, like, doing it, not just like I can, but I am creating music as the one guy playing, writing all the parts, playing all the parts, recording it, and then building a band around it. I found that very inspiring for me to basically decide to have an entire lifetime of honing my skillset around multiple instruments and then pass. Then just the longevity that he's had, the reputation that he has, his versatility of making documentary movies, becoming a bestselling author, all of his collaborations, he even, like, have you heard the Grohl sessions? Zach Brown EP? Where. So he produced a five song ep for the Zach Brown band called the Grohl Sessions. And it's phenomenal. So I just love the fact that he can, like, do all these different things. And there used to be this show on MTV called Fanatic where you remember that? Yeah, I made a VHS tape. I wish I had a copy of it, but I just, like, made a vhs tape and then mailed it into MTV, where basically, you know, they would MTV reviews all of these fan tapes, and then they, like, approach each of these bands like, there was a corn episode and there was a limp Bizkit album or episode, but they'd be like, hey, you know, all these fans sent in, we think. We think this is your biggest fan. And then they, like, fly them out and they get hang out with the band and then they play with them. And I remember being so upset that they. There was a Foo Fighters episode and the girl that they picked, like, they said, hey, you want to play a song with us? And of all of the songs she could have picked, she picked big me, which is, they're still to this day, their most simplistic and straightforward song of all time. And she it up terribly sitting there. I mean, I'm like, you know, I'm a kid. I'm like 7th grade or something. This is bull. This should have been me, and I would have played, you know, hey, Johnny park or whatever. I just like, I'm so much more legit as a fan. And anyways, so it's just, I've had this. They've been an enormous. Not just foo fighters, but Dave Grohl as a man for my.

I don't, I don't know. Big me would be the song I'll pick. You know, it'd probably be something like, for all the cows or my hero is my all time.

It's a great song. Like, dude, yeah, for all the cows. That's, that's a great choice.

Yeah, yeah.

I do feel like one. One. So fu fighters is very consistent. But one thing I feel like they have gotten away from is being weird. And on those first two albums, there's a lot, especially the first album, there's just some weirdness, man. Like some artistic quirkiness that I feel like has been a little lost as he's become the biggest rock star in the world. But I still love it. Still love all the albums. But anyway, so at Sonic Temple in Columbus, Ohio, in 2022, I was there with my friends in nothing more. And I knew that Foo Fighters were the headliner. But, like, at these big festivals, there's backstage and then there's, like, back backstage where that's. So backstage is for all of the bands, and then premium backstage is just for the headliner. Like their own security, their own catering, their own entrance and exit to the, to the venue. And it's. That's very intentional. It's to like, give them space and quiet and peace or whatever. But. So I had no intention of, actually, I knew I was going to be in the approximate same space as day, bro, at the same time. But I didn't think, like, maybe I'll sneak in there. But it just so happened that Matt Penfield, it's been a very MTV centric conversation.

Oh, yeah.

Matt Pinfield was at the festival. He's hanging out backstage, and it was his birthday. And I'm like, so Dave came back to sing Matt a happy birthday, and that was great. And there's like film crews and stuff. And what's interesting, this might be TMI, but just interesting story is that something like, with me at catering and like, while this was happening, I got, my body told me, if you are not away from these people in 100 seconds, you're going to start vomiting on everyone. And I just like, I don't know what it was, but just something sat really wrong with me.

Like eight or something.

Yeah, exactly. So I went over by the tour buses and I puked for like 15 minutes. I wasn't drunk, wasn't sick or whatever. It's just like, just something happened to my body's like, you have two minutes to get out of here. And I'm like, like, dave's there, right? I just missed my chance. Although I'm sure he got swarmed immediately. Yeah, and, yeah, so I'm like, over there yakking and I got, you know, my composure together after, like, 15 minutes. Went on the tour bus, brushed my teeth, changed my shirt and got off. I was like, I blew my chance. And like, as I'm coming off the tour bus, Dave is like, coming around the corner on his way back to the, like, you're like, dude. I was like, yeah. I immediately was like, I'm sure, whatever, if I could.

And I'm sure, you know, that he, um, he was asked to play with Gore. Uh, but he didn't feel comfortable joining that man because he didn't want his mom to, you know, cuz love what Gore does. Anybody doesn't know. It's kind of risque, and I don't think he wanted his mom.

An understatement.

Yeah, yeah, right. Very much understatement.

So they, like, simulate abortions on stage and, like, cut people in half.

Like, I mean, it's fun mean. Cuz I met them, you know, I've seen them in a couple concerts, but they're nice. Yeah, they kind of, um. Yeah, they kind of gory, you know, nothing to take home their mom about.

Yeah, yeah.

So I have three albums here that I want to run you by, and you can tell me if you have any feelings about it. Where were you when you heard this or seen this album?

Let's go.

All right, so the most confident, uh, the most, um. Well, whatever. We're gonna, we're gonna talk about this.

Okay?

Okay.

Absolutely. This is an album, cowboys from hell, that I inherited from having older brothers.

Right.

Um, this metal was much more of an acquired taste for me than like, as soon as I heard, like, offspring, stone temple pilots, uh, tonic, Nirvana, Soundgarden, Alice in chains, every the first time I heard any of those bands, I immediately was like, yep, I love this. I did not feel that way about Pantera. It took me a while to, like, get my head wrapped around, you know what I think cemetery gates was my first, like, I think I needed just a little bit more melody to, like, get hooked into it. And after hearing cemetery gates and, like, those. The, you know, the verses are so cool and that the main guitar solo is so, like, soaring and melodic, and I was like, okay, this is. This is more of, like, a. The appetizer to being able to listen to, like, walk and, um. And I think also as I started. Yeah, I just think I evolved from, like, rock to metal. And even today, I still, like. I like Slipknot and I like coldplay. You know, like, I can very much so enjoy this spectrum. But early. Early on in life, I was like, everything's rock music. I love rock music, so I much more, like, so cowboys from hell reminds me of childhood, but I don't have this, like, childhood fondness for it. Pantera absolutely evolved for me in my, like, young adulthood as something like, fuck, this is right.

This is real. And apparently they're going to make a new record with their permanent member, like, a while ago. I'm not sure how to think about that. You.

But, yeah, that's. I have feelings about that, too.

Right? Yeah. All right, so this is my favorite misfits album, Psycho. You might not share the same sentiment because I don't know if you.

I feel like you almost did research on me. So the very first band I was ever in was a Misfits cover band called the Pop Tart Thieves. And, yeah, man, we just played, and I didn't even know the Misfits. Like, I knew I was into, like, Goldfinger and offspring and a few other bands were about as punk as I was getting at that point in time. And I made friends with some older kids and, yeah, I mean, the first band, the first show I ever played at the Globe east in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, which doesn't exist anymore. I had to get permission from my mom to go, like, it was great. So I'm. Misfits have a special place in my heart. I mean, it's interesting, like, even the way that you phrase this, because it's not so much the music itself, it's what that meant to me as an introduction to the first time, collaborating with other musicians and learning and becoming comfortable with music I hadn't learned before and performing it live. Misfits, to me, is my introduction into performing live music, and I still hear and then just bringing it all together, hearing Metallica do die, my darling, and shit like that. And even the original misfits are headlining some festivals this year, too. So it's interesting seeing all this come full circle. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I still think that, uh, that they should have hired, um, Mike hideous after they hire. After they released, um, Michael Graves. I think hideous.

Yeah.

Like, fits them perfectly. I don't know.

Yeah, yeah. You know, it's interesting, like, a lot of people, a lot of purists, because this goes back to the thing as well. A lot of people just feel like a band is what it is. When either when it's formed or when you become aware of it for the first time, then any deviation from that is like, well, the bands over and I get. I get that feeling. But there's plenty of examples of that not being the case. I think people give most of a. When it's about the singer, because I guess, like, instrumentalists are replaceable. Although I think one of the most glaring examples of that not being the case is avenged sevenfold. You know, unfortunately, after the Rev died, like, unbelievable shift in their music. And it was so clear how much he, as the drummer, was contributing to the entire sound of that band. I feel like dream theater went through a very similar thing where it's like, once Mike left, well, I think he joined.

I've been censored for a minute or two. Right. Because he did one album with him or something.

Mike.

Yeah, yeah.

Which was really cool. So, like, the Rev's favorite drummer of all time was Mike Portenoy. All of the demos for the album nightmare, I think it's called, were recorded. And then they reached out to Mike and be like, hey, you know, the Rev passed. He was, you know, yours idol. So I thought it was very, very cool for Fortnite to come out and record that album and tour with him on that. But that was the last album that the Revs, like, fingerprint was on. And to me, it's very, very clear. I feel very similar about seven dust. There's three albums where Clint Lowry was not in seven dust. And to me, it's so night and day, those three albums. To me, it's abundantly clear that Clint Lowry is a critical part of what makes seven dust. Seven dust. But anyways, yeah, I'm accepting of bands evolving and changing whatever. Sometimes it's done well, sometimes it's not. So.

I mean, the coin is flipped on painting. I'm not sure. I'm not, you know, but. But we'll see, you know, when they come out with more or less album that I want to go through with you is the infamous sound garden.

Yes.

This is down on the upside. I had to look at it. Yeah.

Yes. So, so that's an interesting album for me, because while I inherited a lot of music from my brothers, I feel like Soundgarden was my own discovery of sorts. And then, you know, I definitely started with their later stuff. Super unknown was my intro, and that album is incredible. And what's interesting about down on the upside is that it's my. I have a love hate relationship with it because I think it has the best singles on it and my least favorite non singles, like, all of the songs that didn't make it to the radio, I'm like, yeah, I don't think that they're bad, but, like, it's very seldom that I will sit down and listen to that album front to back, as opposed to, like, super unknown, where I will absolutely do that and then even listen. I did actually just recently go back and listen. I'm a huge Chris Cornell fan. Audio slave. His solo stuff, temple of the Dog, I went back and listened to, and I'm going to blank on the name. It's called, like, king of Bones or something. But, like, the last album that Soundgarden did when they got back together, and it was just like, even though it's the exact same lineup, there was like, the magic is just not there. I don't know. I don't know how to. I can't put my finger on it because Chris was still crushing it. Chris was doing all of these other things, like, audio slave is incredible. His solo stuff is amazing and versatile. I don't know what it was. It just. But anyways, that album, to me, was very much so. I think it also marks the, like, kind of end of grunge for me. I think it was like the. At that point, like, Pearl Jam was going way more towards, like, a. Almost like, indie rock kind of sound. And they've never really gone back to, like, versus vitalogy. Ten.

Right. Hidden.

But I think it's an important album.

Yeah, Tin wasn't that album, I think, that program ever released. And then, of course, he got something partly with. With the purple album, my favorite album of all time, from there. Yeah, I mean, but I think grunge has slowly became extinct in a way, you know?

Agreed. I think it's interesting that I've. A lot of times, when you look back at, like, to me, decades have very definitive musical genres. Seventies had what we call classic rock now, but also there was this huge funk movement happening there. The eighties had hair metal, but also new wave and electro synth pop and industrial getting introduced in the nineties. Very much so. Hip hop is becoming enormous. Grunge obviously the biggest thing in the planet. Two thousands. I feel like the last definitive genre of music, although this is not good, is like boy bands. And then after that, it's like it's been two decades since then. And it's just like, I couldn't tell you. I couldn't. Oh, yeah, 2010s is blah, which maybe there's something good about that, but, like, to me, I just feel like everything's getting kind of muddled together. And then there's these constant desires. You have, like a Greta Van fleet come out and be like, we're just basically going to be Led Zeppelin in the two thousands. There's, like, a lot of that kind of stuff being like, it's going to be retro. I don't know. I kind of yearn for the days when I could look at a decade and be like, this. Like, this is the origin of this music and. Yeah, I just feel like we don't have that anymore, unfortunately.

Right, right. Well, I now want to talk about your drum ticks, your drum take for nothing more. We said in the beginning.

Yeah, go ahead.

Okay. But I want to know what were the key responsibilities of a drum tick for the band and how do you ensure the drummers set up meets their performance requirements? I mean, like, they need that. You can't really. You know.

Yeah. So I had never drum teched before. I'm a lifelong drummer. Had to have a very seasoned touring veteran, certainly understand everything required of the drum tech and. But I'd never done it before, and I wouldn't change anything. But going from never doing it before to my first gig is with one of my favorite bands of the last 20 years with a very complex setup like Ben has is very particular. I'm not. Not at all.

Just like. Yeah, yeah.

You know, there were, like, specific measurements about, like, symbol height and angle and tom placement and. And tuning notes. He has a very big kit both acoustically and then many different electronic components, both, like, foot triggers and different pads throughout the entire kit. He also controls, basically, playback. So he has a drum pad to the left of him that has stuff like electronic snares and stuff like that. But he also starts and stops the click, essentially, that the whole band is playing into. So the back tracks are all synced up with it and everything. So they'll finish a song and then Johnny will talk to the audience and Ben is kind of reading, when is that little thing going to wrap up so he can hit this pad and the whole band gets this, like, 1234. And the next song starts and then all of that is running through two computers that. So basically, as drum tech for nothing more, I'm in control. It's responsible for this very big, particular drum set and all of these electronics that run through these two computers. One is specific to what Ben is doing and all of his electronics. The other one is controlling all of the, like, like, vocal effects and it's tied into the lighting and, like. So I basically went from no drum tech experience whatsoever to the entire show is dependent on what I'm doing on my very first tour. And it gave me an incredible amount of anxiety, especially because the tour that we did. So I was with them for basically all 22 and then we did shiprocket on 23. And then I stepped away to pursue basically raw and fear of water more. More dominantly because I have no desire to, like, be a drum tech. Like, every night I'd be sitting there out of the stage watching music happen. And while I was proud to be, like, bringing it, helping, bringing it to life, I was like, I want. I'm 15ft away from what I want so badly. Which was cool because at the end of that tour, I ended up playing, performing live with. With nothing more. That. That meant a lot to me at the machine shop in Flint, Michigan. But, yeah, man, it was. Ben was a great guy to work with. He's. He's very clear about what he wants. My biggest complaint of his is that he is a beast and he plays super fucking hard. And I've never seen someone go through so many symbols. It was like. And it would be in the middle of the set and you can just. Because he hits so hard, when you hit a symbol that is definitively cracked, it's this very unique, weak sound. And so, like, even finishing the song with that is kind of unacceptable. So, like, for the whole set, I was basically like, oh, like, ready to go. I got to the point where I was having to, like, go to guitar center in between, like, shows or whatever to, like, stock up on more symbols. And he actually, to his credit, was able to, like, course correct. He like him. And I sat at the kit and kind of figured out, like, is it the angle of the symbols? Is it the placement? And I didn't. No one would ever ask him or any drummer to, like, play softer. It's like, you do what's right for the music. But we were able to act halfway through the tour, and he broke only, like, one symbol for the next 25 shows, which was great. So it's cool to be able to evolve for that kind of reason. Because he was in his comfort zone, and so to get out of that comfort zone and adjust to, like, what you have been playing at home and what you did in rehearsals, in for the name of, like, making the show go smoother and also not be spending $700 per show in symbols. Um, and he's a phenomenal, phenomenal genre, and I love that, man.

So what? So did he use the or paste or. I mean, because, I mean, he has to really hit him harder. I mean, make him.

Yeah, I'm blank. I'm almost positive it's Zildjian.

Okay. Yeah.

I'm, like, 90% sure right now. I don't know. And also, just him breaking them is no reflection of, like, the company.

No, no. Right? Yeah.

He literally was. Is like, target. It's like domestic abuse and huge sticks, and he's ripped, and it's just like. Yeah, it's not like he's trying. That's just his style.

Right. Yeah.

Famously beats the absolute out of his drums as to. Yeah, so, yeah, I get it, man. I get it. But it was a good experience. I love those guys. Formed, you know, lifelong friendships out of that. Both of the band and other members of the crew. Actually, the guitar tech is living with me right now. Um, yeah, man. Like, I. There was a really, really good experience. It was just a lot.

Yeah.

I strongly encourage everyone to get out of their comfort zone in a lot of ways in life. So many good things for me, certainly musically, but also just other things in life, has. Has come from me making the conscious decision to do what makes me uncomfortable. Um, and, yeah, there's a chance that you'll fail, but, like, not doing something. Cause you think you will fail. You're already experiencing 50% of the feeling that you would if you did try it and fail, so you might as well just try it. Like, this fear of failure. You're still feeling that discomfort, so it's like, might as well try it. And then you could get the benefit of, like, holy. I didn't think I could do it, and then I did, and there's all these positive things that come from it. Like, get out of your comfort zone. Guys like it. Definitely a lot of good stuff comes from that.

When. When I look somebody up, I typically go through their Wikipedia page, which is somewhat 50%. Right in. 50%, you know, false, obviously, because it doesn't say. When you joined raw, is that in 2023 or 2021?

So, yeah, I went to. Coming out of COVID quarantine, I was very gripped with this Carpe diem. Life is short type feeling of, I've been doing music my whole life, but I was like, it's, I really need to step it up now. Like, if I'm serious about this and want this to really take off, I need to start working with serious producers and engineers to take. Because I was self recording basically, up until that point. I was like, I need to get to the next level. At that time, nothing more. Actually had just finished up recording vocals and doing some songwriting with Sahaj Tikkatan of Raw, who's also a very prolific producer and has worked with, like, Starset and Bad Wolves and otherwise, uh, Motley Crue, like several other bands. And, um, the guys in nothing more were cool enough to make an intro for me. I sent some demos to Sahaj, said, would you, you know, would you work with me? And he said, yeah. And you know, what's interesting is that I came out there. We recorded in Fort Wayne, Indiana, which is where he lives, and also Sweetwater is headquartered there. And we did a lot of recording at their phenomenal setup there. But on the first day of recording, he asked, like, what is fear of water? And what do you want to do with this? And it's kind of what I explained to you at the beginning, that there isn't going to be, like, a band. There's not five of us. We're not going on the road. That this is basically my audio resume, and I want to make the best music with the best people possible, get on people's radar, and just basically be top of mind the next time. I mean, you see prominent people leaving prominent bands all the time. I want to be in that Rolodex. And what's funny is that as I told him that, he's like, yeah, that's not how that works. I was like, okay, well, let's make some music. And at the end of three weeks of working together, he's like, do you want to. Do you want to be the drummer for Raw? I was like, yeah, I absolutely did not go into that recording thinking like, this is a tryout for Raw, or maybe I'll sneak my. That wasn't a thought for 1 second.

Just like, having fun kind of session, right?

Yeah, exactly. And. But also, I took it very seriously. Like, I wanted, who's a good songwriter? To help me make the best music possible. And, yeah, so being in raw is not, like, it's not even remotely close to a full time gig. He's very kind of sporadic and selective about touring. He makes much more money working with other bands, and that keeps him at home with his wife and kids. So I totally understand that, but it's opened up a lot of doors and very appreciative of the opportunity that Sahaj has afforded me. And, yeah, so, like, as I talk about, like, I want to be that, you know, go to the path of Kiko and Luke Collins. In my mind, that's with a band that's much more, like, prolific and actively out there touring and has plans for recording and maybe has label support. I'm looking to get into a fully functional organization of a band, and that is doing this seriously for a living year round. And to me, fear of water, the brand of fear of water and that music and my social presence and the collaborations that I'm doing with these phenomenal musicians from these other bands and doing interviews like this, all of that is a part of this approach for me, getting to the point of the next time, whatever, Memphis may fires guitarist quits or something, they're like, what about that fear water guy? Like, I. That's. I'm. That's my goal.

Fear water, dude, let's get them in, you know?

Yeah, pretty much, man. It's. Yeah, stranger things have happened, so I.

Don'T know if this is gonna make you excited or squeamish or something, but it seems to me like you have the ability to become another nineties nails because wrestler does everything by itself, too, right?

I mean, yeah, I mean, that is really my.

What you want to, like, the end goal, the end game, I guess you would call it. That's.

I mean, kind of, except for the fact that, like, I'm not, like, making fear of water, an organization that, like, comes to life on stage and tour. With that and everything, I'm much more focused on making the best music possible and releasing it for people's enjoyment. I mean, it's really for me, but if people enjoy it, that's awesome, then, I mean, just, dude, it's, like, overwhelming for me to think about all of the work that would go into, like, building a band around this, creating the tour, getting a tour manager, you know, the relationships with the venues, the merch people, the promotion, all of this stuff is that compared to the lower hanging fruit of, like, joining forces with a band that's already doing this, that already has all these established relationships, that needs a very serious, very talented guitarist, bassist, drummer, you know, keyboard, whatever, that I could easily fill in and do that tomorrow. That being said, I could see fear of water. I will continue to do music as fear of water until I die. I could see much more me going this path that I've described of joining whatever, one of these incredible band, any band that basically you hear on octane right now and that build momentum there, continue to build relationships, meet other musicians who are looking to do something new and different. And maybe a couple years from now, fear of waters materializes in a physical way that you see us, me on stage, and at that point, it becomes more of the Trent Reznor reality. But until then, I'm just really focused on making the best music possible and continuing. All of my. All of these songs for the foreseeable future are going to be collaborations with people that I really respect, which is cool. Like, it's a lot of work making those come to fruition, but it's been a really cool experience bringing those to life.

I think that you have more of a opened relationship with more musicians now that you are by yourself. Um, because we're gonna talk about this guy right here. Okay. So I interviewed him a couple years ago, and he's the most sweetheart I'll be. Dude.

Um, one of the nicest people I've ever met.

Oh, yeah, by far. Could you tell us how. How that relationship connected? And because you have a song called with him called codependent parasites and. That's correct. I mean, it's like one of the. My favorites. Think what you have right now.

Yeah, I appreciate that, man. Yeah, I mean, it did really well, too. Like, it got. It's still getting radio play now. Honestly, the fact that anything that I do gets radio play is incredible to me. I'm confident what I do or believe in myself. I know that objectively, I am a good musician. But, like. Like we were saying before about talent. Like, that really is a. A moderately small part of the puzzle that gets. That creates, that leads to success in the music industry. Some of the most talented, like, virtuoso, scary level talented people I know will never do anything with music for this enormous list of reasons and whatever. I mean, that's the difference. That's our different life journeys. But. But, yeah, that song did really well. It's still getting radio play. It peaked at number ten on the SMR top 50 list in February, which is incredible because I literally have this framed because it's like.

And I think you said it was like 35. Like, this week. Number 35 this week.

No, that's different song. So that's the. So my current. One of my current singles, systemic, featuring Aaron Nordstrom of Gemini syndrome.

Great guy, too.

Yeah, super Nice Guy debuted last week and has shot up 26 spots to number 35. Chart comes out every Tuesday. So, like, that level of momentum is incredible to me because codependent parasites with Elias climbed, like, two spots every single week for almost four months, getting up to the number ten spot, which is exciting. And every Tuesday, the star comes out and I was like, I'm going to open it up this week and I'm going to be gone. And I will be very happy. Even just being on it, like, hitting 50 for. Because every other band is like, metallica, nickelback, Foo Fighters, Green Day, Blink 182, seven dust, avenge sevenfold, Atreyu. Like, that's the biggest and best bands in the world. And then this guy you've never heard.

Of out of Austin, Texas.

And it's even something that I had to, like, work through in therapy because there was this. I have. I have really severe, maybe not severe, I have very persistent imposter syndrome. And I think a lot of people go through this as well. But when you don't have, like, a sensory stimuli, whatever, some sort of life experience that counters the imposter syndrome. Like, if I went on tour and I'm selling out venues, I'm like, cool. This is a tangible, physical metric of success that shows I shouldn't have imposter syndrome, because people, the people who I'm seeing and hearing and meeting are enjoying the music, and I'm not doing that with fear of water. And I didn't even hear, like, codependent parasites was on the radio for two months on rock stations all over the country. And I'm getting these spreadsheets being like, you know, Columbus and Raleigh and San Diego, but I don't live in those places. And it wasn't getting played in Austin. And I'm like, okay, I'll just take your word for it. Like, there's this chart and this spreadsheet and a royalty check, and I'm like, oh, sure, okay. But then it. But then it played on octane, and it was like a huge, huge bucket list thing for me, being played on, by many metrics, the best and biggest hard rock station in the world. And, you know, it being on this chart with all of these incredible artists and, like, I don't know, it's phenomenal, man. Like, I. To me, that's. That is a dream come true. And it really does validate, like, what I'm doing and this journey that I'm on and Elias is a huge part of that. So. Been a non point fan forever. Like, I remember sitting in my 1997 Oldsmobile at Chiva in my high school parking lot and playing statement very, very loud on my sound system. And I grew up in outside of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Non point has this, like, very deep love for the capital city, Madison, Wisconsin, because the rock station there, 94 one JJO, was the first radio station to really give non point a shot and like, put their songs into rotation.

Yeah.

And then they have music festivals there, band camp and Taste of Madison twice a year that they have played basically every single year for like 20 plus years. And so I've seen non point, I don't, I lost track 50, 60, 70 times.

One time with pop rouge, but that wasn't great because not a lot of people come to Columbia, South Carolina, you know, because I'm 20 minutes and not a lot of rock bands come down there. But when I, when they do, I go. And when I heard nine point, I'm like, I gotta go, dude, come on.

Awesome, man. Um, but yeah, it's been a huge fan for a long time. And, you know, as I started to me going to Fort Wayne, Indiana to make music with Sahaja was this first domino that led to a lot of other things. Some of them are like, direct introductions being made. Other things are like, totally random. Like, hey, I'm just at the music festival at the same time as you. Or like, I put this song out, it does really well and I have people reaching out to me. And so it's kind of a combination of random chaos and close friends of mine making introductions that led to me just like getting on a text thread with Elias and with any of these collaborations. At the end of the day, for this first wave of collaborators, they've never heard of me. They have no, they don't owe me anything. They don't need to, like, do me a favor. And at the end of the day, their name is going to be attached to this piece of music potentially for the end of time. So the mixic really needs to stand on its own. When I'm reaching out to this person being like, I envision you on this song, would you be down to do it? And they have created this awesome foundation for me moving forward. Now when I reach out to these other vocalists that I have the ball rolling with right now, now I can hold a quantifiable thing and be like, I've worked with these five incredible singers from these five bands and, you know, this music video has 200,000 views and this was on octane and this hit number ten on the charts. And, like, they have given me, you know, something that I couldn't have fabricated by myself, and I'm incredibly appreciative of how they've assisted me in that way. But Elias was one of the first. He really believed in the song that I sent him. And, yeah, he was a great collaborative partner. He contributed vocally, lyrically to it. He. In a collaborative setting like this with a featured artist, sometimes they're like, give me an instruction manual. Give me the exact time stamp of, like, okay, you're going to sing these lyrics in verse two, which starts at 1 minute and 23 seconds and ends at two minutes and 10 seconds. Send me this vocal file, the end. And it could be as, like, clinical as that. It's like, you tell me exactly what to do, I'm going to give you. Elias went a very different route of, like, wanted to understand the origin of the song, and we talked about it creatively and the arrangement of it. He gave me, like, 55 different vocal takes. And, like, here's the. Here's three different versions of the main vocal and then doubled. And here's a lower octave. And a higher octave and a third harmony. And a fifth harmony.

Here's a. Okay, yeah. Surgical. Yeah, he was very surgical when he. Which is great, you know, because he needs somebody like that to bring out the best in you, you know?

Yeah, for sure. So, like, being able to, in a lot of these scenarios, making music with people like Aaron and Clint Lowery and Elias and Heidi from butcher babies and Sahaj from Raw and these other collaborations I have in the works, like, I'm working with some of my all time favorite musicians and making music that I, like, really put all of myself into and firmly believe in. So then to see it embraced by the community that I am a part of, I go on shiprocked, and, like, these are my people. I'm not up on stage. I'm here to see bands just like everyone else. So to see those same people embracing and lifting it up and calling their local radio stations and adding these songs to their playlists and, like, interviewing me, whatever. Like, it means. It means a ton to me. Like, it really does, because I'm out here doing this by myself without a label, and it's a lot of work, and there's a lot of, oh, yeah, dead ends and red tape, and so it's. It means a lot.

Yeah. So, uh, I just want to go through a few more things, and then I'll let you go. Um, I met Aaron uart from back when he was the guitarist. War. Uh, o tip. Oh, yeah. He is like, the master at guitar, right?

He's awesome.

So, with him and you working on systemic, was he the same way that you work with Elias? Was he that surgical being, too, or what?

Even more so. He has a much deeper level of, like, theory understanding, like, the actual technical specifics of music and chord structure and what key is the song it is. And what kind of different variations and modes can we do this harmony in? Where I just literally sit, I couldn't do it. If you put a gun to my head and said, play a e seven chord, I would be dead, because I just don't have the knowledge. So, same thing I told him. Exactly. Here's what I envision, but please, like, I would love the Aaron Nordstrom treatment. And he came back with, like, he changed the entire key of the verse that he sang, and I would have never thought of that. And the first time I heard it, I was like, what the f, man? And then I listen to it again. I was like, oh, this is perfect. Yeah, it was awesome. And it's been very collaborative, and, you know, I feel very fortunate. I'm honored to call him a friend at this point and. And to be creative partners. I just did another collaboration with him in a different band that I make music with called Modern Echo, and I'm excited for people to hear that song, as well. But he's just. He's a truly collaborative, well rounded musical partner. Like, yes, he is. In this iteration. He's a vocalist. But, like, he. Like you said, like, he understands guitar, he understands chord structure. He understands songwriting as a whole, and how all these different instrumentation works together and working with someone on that level really facilitates this opportunity to make a song as good as it can possibly be, instead of just being like, here's a song that you had nothing to do with, but it has that guy from that band, and so maybe their fans will like it. I'm happy with either, but, you know, if any of my collaborators want to, like, really dig in, I wholeheartedly welcome it. Being, like, a democratically collaborative, creative experience, it's awesome.

Yeah, so I. Okay, so I'm gonna say who has a better screen voice? Okay. I'm gonna go through three. Three artists, and I want you to name the best one. Okay.

All right.

Heidi Shepherd. Heidi shepherd and Wyatt. Heidi shepherd. The best scream voice ever made. And I just fell in love with. With a butcher baby nineties.

Yeah.

And carla's great, too, but I don't think anybody can get that vocal range like, she does.

Agree, which is why her contribution on my song one day is incredible, because it's like, this huge departure. She is a phenomenal singer. I mean, vocalists as a whole, including performer and stage presence and lyricist. Like, she's just an incredible human all around. But her involvement on my song one day, which is more of, like, a ballad for will blow anyone away just in terms of, like, if you know her from butcher babies and then you hear her be, like, vulnerable and exposed, but still, like, powerful and melodic on the song is. It really is a testament to her talent and her artistry. And, yeah, she's. She's a badass. I'm very, very honored to have her on the track, and she's been super supportive of it since it's come out in terms of, like, the promotion of it and whatever. And, yeah, she's. To answer your question, let me. I'm gonna say Heidi shepherd is good.

So the song is about a bond between a mother and a son dealing with going through a abusive.

Yeah.

Father.

Yeah. So, specifically, it's about my relationship with my mother and her.

Okay. Because I was my next person, whether, like, personal. Okay.

Yeah.

So.

And I do think that it is the type. So it's about that. It's about my relationship with my mom.

Yeah.

Has got very accelerated and very, very powerful from trauma, essentially, which happens with a lot of people in life. And my father is an incredibly abusive, violent, bad person. And she saved, literally, me and my brother's lives by physically removing us from that home with no backup plan. She just knew that this is going to result in someone dying, and we formed this incredibly strong bond. I have basically two parents worth of relationships invested in one. And, you know, we are. We had this relationship of, like, mother and child, but also, I was, like, even at, like, ten when this is really escalating, I had to grow up very quickly and, you know, experience some very adult concepts and have very adult conversations with her. And in my adult life, I very much so consider her a dear friend as well, which I'm all incredibly grateful for, but it also makes me fear her death tremendously. Like, I've really, really struggled with what basically is called, like, anticipatory grief. The inevitability of the fact that I am going to lose this incredibly important woman to me one day. And we all. Many, many, many. This is a very common, universal experience for most of us in the human journey, barring some sort of tragedy where we die before our parents, or maybe some people don't know their parents, but it is something that I've grappled with for a really long time and writing this song has really been very cathartic and helped me focus more on, like, being appreciative and living in the moment and embracing the time that I have left with my mom. And Heidi really helped bring the emotional nature of that message out with her, with her vocal performance. And I think a lot of people, certainly people who have survived domestic abuse, but also just people who love. And it doesn't have to be specific to your mom, but, like, that parental relationship can be incredibly powerful. And the. The universal inevitability of life coming to an end is, while it's incredibly common, it's also soul crushing, and it's a lot to. A lot to work with. So, yeah, I'm very, very proud of how that song came out. I'm very, very proud of the music video, which is, I did not envision doing this when I started writing the song, but it's a. It's like a modern ballet that I worked with this incredible choreography group out of Bulgaria called Emphys, and we sat down and listened to the song and went, line my line. And they were incredibly creative collaborators and were amazing at translating constructive criticism, but also had their own interpretations of the lyrics. And I'm so happy with how that video came together, which everyone should watch. It's on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. That really, in a physical way, tells that journey that I've been on with my mom and that so many of us are with. With our parents, especially going through trauma. So, yeah, I'm really, really proud of it.

No. Awesome. Awesome. I do have one more question for you, sir, if you don't mind. I promise I'll let you go.

I'm out of rush, man. Let's do it.

Oh, great. Great. Okay, so, this might be the hardest question I've asked you tonight. Yeah, it's kind of. Everybody. That thing you can give to handle it. Um, an artist, album, or song that you can think of right now that you can. Is there an artist, song, or album that you can listen to right now, but you can't tell me or Heidi or your mom or your other how it makes you feel deep inside your soul. It's so powerful, you know?

Like.

Like.

So it's something that I have, like, a song that I have, like, such an intimate connection with that I.

You can't tell how it makes you feel. You feel inside.

Um, there's two songs that. I mean, I'm just going off of. There's two songs that I can think of, and I'm literally just going off of, like, what my brain is telling me, right? Just like what? Like getting a Rorschach test where they hold up the ink blot and they're like, what is this? You're not supposed to think about it. So just the two things that immediately came to mind as the song called save me by museum muses, an incredible, incredible band, one of the best live bands I've ever seen. But this saved me is one of these rare examples of the bass player taking vocal responsibilities and writing that song. And it's about, this is not what the song means to me, but it's about his near death battle with severe alcoholism. And there's just this true beauty to it that, that really resonates with me. And I kind of interpret it in my own way. And the other song is slow dancing in a burning room by John Mayer, where it's just like, yeah, there's just something about it, man, that it's.

Was that a cover song or. Because I think Ernest did that too, right?

I don't. I believe it's an original. I'm going to Google that right now. I'd be very surprised if earnest.

For anybody who doesn't. It's a great country band and they, they did this song. I didn't know that that, uh, Mayor did it before. I don't know.

It does look like. Yeah. Songwriters, John Clayton Mayer. That being said, I do think the phrase slow dancing in a burning room is, is a phrase that, although it might be like a different song.

Yeah, it may be like.

So, like, actually, I'm here. So what is the, what is the artist that you're talking about, Ernest?

Ern est. It's a country band that, that one called the exact same thing. So like I said, I'm not sure if it's the exact song, but interesting.

Yeah. So it looks like theirs came out in 2023. I could be wrong.

Yes.

I'm looking at the lyrics now. Yes. So they are covering John Mayer. Yes.

Okay, perfect.

Yeah. Yeah. Cause that song came, the John Mayer song came out like eleven years ago.

Right?

It's gorgeous, man. It has incredible guitar work on it. The lyrics are a nice blend of like, poetic, literal, but not too literal. Poetic, but also kind of biting and sarcastic. I don't know, man. It's gorgeous. It is a gorgeous, gorgeous song. And like I said, just, I'm just giving you the answer. That's like, immediately popping into my head. The two songs. I'm like, that's, that's exactly what I wanted. You know, I'm looking forward to hearing Ernest cover. Those are big shoes to fill, man. Those are big shoes.

Yeah. So, okay, so for anybody listening right now, you can. You can visit Dave Perry, fear water band on Instagram. It's fear water. Instagram.com pure water.

And then he of water on Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram. I have a Twitter account. I have a TikTok. But, like, I am concentrated on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube.

Facebook is fear water band.

True. Yeah, but if you just search fear of water, like, in the bar, instead of, like, typing into the URL, it'll. It'll come up.

You'll get it. You'll get it. So. So me and Dave, we're going to form a band. We're going to get together and knock it out since you already so good. Okay, so I was born in Austin, Texas. Oh, sure. We are. We are a cowboy, if I heard.

Oh, yeah. I was born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Live there. Austin. So we're. So we can form like a. I go country metal band or something. Country metal.

I don't know. I don't know that that's been done or at least done well.

So we'll do it. We'll do it. All right. So we honestly do thank you, Dave, for coming on show. And. And I hope God, you work with Dave Grohl one day. That would be amazing if you do that, you know, we'll see. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

We'll do. We'll do an interview with you after our song.

Yeah, perfect. Perfect. So, until next time, guys, always remember, when words fail, music speaks. Bye, guys. Yes. We did it.

Oh, yeah, man.

That was great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you so much for being so awesome to us and coming on.

I really enjoyed the conversation.

Yeah. And then you need me to do anything.

I know that sometimes with streamyard and Riverside, it needs, like, a few minutes to on my end.

Right?

Like, render and upload. Do you need me to do anything?

You need to stay on for a little bit longer. I don't know. Yeah, it's weird. I mean. I mean, I have. I did record on my rodecaster pro.

And it does look like it's still, I guess up here. It looks like it's still recording. I don't know if that you stopping. That begins.